Land to rent

[The Ruminant]

OK, 140 acres of goodish medium clay arable land - 3.5t wheat land. It's in 2 separate blocks half a mile apart, no entitlements, grain barn but no drying facilities, no other buildings or house. Land is unfenced, no stewardship.

What rents would you offer?

 

[franklin]

What would I offer, or what do I think it would go for?

Question 1: Is there an AD plant nearby?
Question 2: What's the blackgrass like?

 

[warksfarmer]

(@admin - posted this in the wrong section, would you move it to Cropping please)

OK, 140 acres of goodish medium clay arable land - 3.5t wheat land. It's in 2 separate blocks half a mile apart, no entitlements, grain barn but no drying facilities, no other buildings or house. Land is unfenced, no stewardship.

What rents would you offer?

Its worth £100/ac plus a bit more for use of the shed but I guess it will go for £200/ac.

 

[Steevo]

Its worth £100/ac plus a bit more for use of the shed but I guess it will go for £200/ac.

£200/ac+ more like i'd have thought.

 

[Wombat]

£200/ac+ more like i'd have thought.

Yup I'm sure someone will need to justify that new quad track

 

[The Ruminant]

So lots of speculation about what other people would pay but Lee's the only one who's suggested a figure for what it's worth. Standard rotation, no AD plant nearby as far as I know. I haven't walked the whole block so don't know about blackgrass but, given that it's heavyish land that's been under a plough-based wheat-rape system for years, I'm guessing it's not going to be BG free

So, back of an envelope calculation, what would you pay?

 

[Wombat]

So lots of speculation about what other people would pay but Lee's the only one who's suggested a figure for what it's worth. Standard rotation, no AD plant nearby as far as I know. I haven't walked the whole block so don't know about blackgrass but, given that it's heavyish land that's been under a plough-based wheat-rape system for years, I'm guessing it's not going to be BG free

So, back of an envelope calculation, what would you pay?

Any sfp, drains? I would goto about £110

 

[Brisel]

Its worth £100/ac plus a bit more for use of the shed but I guess it will go for £200/ac.

That's a very wise post.

What it is worth to you is the main question. Work out the likely rotational average gross margin, what your fixed costs are then your margin & how much of that you are happy to give as rent. Half your estimated profit margin perhaps?

If there's no SFP is someone else claiming it & if so will there be greening requirements?
FBT? How long for? Do you need to invest in more kit to do it?
Any soil analyses available?
Drainage?

 

[Pedders]

so whats 550 acres of grade 3 arable farmland worth on a 15 year FBT incl SFP ....Yield potential around 3 to 3.5 t tops an acre easy working ..all work able to be done within existing machinery & labour capacity ?

 

[warksfarmer]

so whats 550 acres of grade 3 arable farmland worth on a 15 year FBT incl SFP ....Yield potential around 3 to 3.5 t tops an acre easy working ..all work able to be done within existing machinery & labour capacity ?

Different ball game altogether as you've got to fund the first years rent and crop growing costs before you get a return. So if you doing £180/acre on inputs and your own stubble to stubble machinery costs are £100/acre your talking about £150k out before any income. Rent will be quarterly on entry I guess and if your claiming sfp you won't get that till the following january?

I guess if you can do it with existing kit your machinery ownership costs will come down, but the operating costs will go up? Or did you loose some land and this could replace it?

Is there a yard with house?
Drying?
Water?

But again I am sure it will be closer to £300/acre if your claiming sfp.

 

[Old Spot]

I would go to £110/ac but thats why I am farming less ground than I was last year.

 

[Pedders]

Different ball game altogether as you've got to fund the first years rent and crop growing costs before you get a return. So if you doing £180/acre on inputs and your own stubble to stubble machinery costs are £100/acre your talking about £150k out before any income. Rent will be quarterly on entry I guess and if your claiming sfp you won't get that till the following january?

I guess if you can do it with existing kit your machinery ownership costs will come down, but the operating costs will go up? Or did you loose some land and this could replace it?

Is there a yard with house?
Drying?
Water?

But again I am sure it will be closer to £300/acre if your claiming sfp.

1/ No House
2 . good Grain Drying facility decent workshop + fertiliser/ gp store
which would allow existing buildings to be released for other purposes
3. No water and not veg ground

at £300 acre rent +£180 Vcs and £ 100 machinery = £580 = 3.8t to break even =cant be worth it !

 

[warksfarmer]

1/ No House
2 . good Grain Drying facility decent workshop + fertiliser/ gp store
which would allow existing buildings to be released for other purposes
3. No water and not veg ground

at £300 acre rent +£180 Vcs and £ 100 machinery = £580 = 3.8t to break even =cant be worth it !

Realistically if the grain store is good then a local farm to land that had less than adequate grain drying/storage could think the extra 550 acre is worth a bit more due to it then giving them some better drying and storage for all their land if they are prepared to sell a bit early and move crops around once dried etc.

The idea of not brother to invest in new drying storage on their own land and lets put a proportion of the money we would of spent on it towards paying extra rent over and above what the land can return.

So say a rotation of ww,ww,osr,ww,sbeans could achieve an average gross margin after input costs and machinery costs of £230/acre over the 6 year rotation. Halve that gives a rent of £115/acre and a hopefully a profit of £115/ac before any existing fixed costs.

 

[Pedders]

.

So say a rotation of ww,ww,osr,ww,sbeans could achieve an average gross margin after input costs and machinery costs of £230/acre over the 6 year rotation. Halve that gives a rent of £115/acre and a hopefully a profit of £115/ac before any existing fixed costs.

interesting ..how are you accounting for SFP in that ? is it included or over and above and in which case how much should the landlord get of it ?

 

[warksfarmer]

interesting ..how are you accounting for SFP in that ? is it included or over and above and in which case how much should the landlord get of it ?

Put the sfp into the gm eg:

3.3t/ac ww @ £150/t
Sfp @ £80/ac (although will reduce)
Less £180/ac inputs
Less £120/ac machinery costs
= £275/ac

Did roughly the same with the other crops then averaged it.

 

[Pedders]

so bidding should be around the £115 mark ..I wonder where it will actually be !

 

[warksfarmer]

so bidding should be around the £115 mark ..I wonder where it will actually be !

£300/ac.

 

[midlandslad]

Perhaps ask @Johndeere I understand he has another method for working out what to tender for land!?

 

[Johndeere]

Perhaps ask @Johndeere I understand he has another method for working out what to tender for land!?

Unfortunately I'm old news from 2011 and current rents in Oxon are £220/acre with no subsidy to someone on here but I don't feel the need to tag him.

High rents aren't sustainable and rent reviews have helped, going from 800 to 1500 acres has now opened the door on contract farming opportunities which do pay, also buying the sumo drill has created other opportunities to now sell the sumo range. So if you want a demo then give us a shout

 

[Daniel]

Unfortunately I'm old news from 2011 and current rents in Oxon are £220/acre with no subsidy to someone on here but I don't feel the need to tag him.

High rents aren't sustainable and rent reviews have helped, going from 800 to 1500 acres has now opened the door on contract farming opportunities which do pay, also buying the sumo drill has created other opportunities to now sell the sumo range. So if you want a demo then give us a shout

The landowner pockets £300/ac?

I might as well chuck it in and spend the rest of my days living in the Alps off the income!