Landlord rights

[Highland Mule]

I know we have been absolute fools and totally naïve and for that we are guilty. I guess we should not have trusted a friend. I just hoped that posting on here would maybe give us a little hope that there was something we could do.

Thanks all for your help

There are things you can do, and there are potential ways you can get out of this mess, but they do probably need proper legal advice. From reading the thread, I would say that your main line of defence would be by proving that the neighbour is not a tenant, due to some technicality of the way the agreement and arrangement was handled. For me, I'd be asking you advisor to investigate that a bit more.

Understanding that you don't want to prejudice your case, it may be worth clarifying a few facts too:
1. What country do you live/ is the land in (E/W/S/NI)?
2. When you intimate that you undertook your own farming activities alongside those of the neighbour, what exactly did that entail, and what can you prove you did? (If you can show that you deprived the neighbour of access in the past, then you can demonstrate a gap in his access etc.)

Others may have further thoughts on adding to the list too.

 

[chipchap]

Of course any advice you get on a public forum is worth precisely as much as you paid for it

 

[Nearly]

Of course any advice you get on a public forum is worth precisely as much as you paid for it

if not less.

 

[serf]

if not less.

Who you referring to 🫣

 

[serf]

if not less.

Wish I'd used that one myself

 

[honeyend]

I'd like to hear the other side of the story here. I tend to agree with the OP that the tenant should keep to their word and bugger off, but I can't quite get my head around the fact that they have owned 80 acres for 30+ years but have done nothing with it and only earned a tenner an acre in rent.
Something doesn't sound right

I have been grazing thirty acres, on not even a handshake, it was bought as an investment. I have put temporary electric fencing up, piped water from my supply, but all on the cheap, and just have a verbal agreement every year for a box of beef. Not everyone who buys land wants to farm, or even graze it, it can be somewhere to park money, or they just want a view. If you want a good reputation you do as you 'landlord' says, then you often get another plot.
Often the people who own the land have no idea of the law , and then someone takes advantage. I live among travellers and we have none of this, because they know the law, and they know landowners know it to , as they are big farms. I rented out a house on a room basis, we had 24/7 access, just so there was no tenancy, and I used it every day.

 

[honeyend]

Just because you feel hard done by doesn't make any difference. You have literally had years to sort this out, did it never occur to you to pop into a Land Agent's office or the NFU to ask a bit of advice?

The Law is the Law, the tenant has certainly done nothing wrong as you never took the trouble to sort out a proper agreement.

The 80 acres must have been a fair share of the purchase price of your property, if you lent someone your car would you wait 30 years before asking for it back?

Harsh. If you do not come from a farming background, you go to a solicitor and buy it like you buy a house and often a lot is missed because they only see it as buying a house.
Ours missed the drainage board rates, had the wrong LR map, never mentioned SFP, I wonder where that went. The neighbours had their right to water missed off, which has cost them 40K. I actually had the NFU and phoned the local land agent, not interested.

 

[Dry Rot]

I have been grazing thirty acres, on not even a handshake, it was bought as an investment. I have put temporary electric fencing up, piped water from my supply, but all on the cheap, and just have a verbal agreement every year for a box of beef. Not everyone who buys land wants to farm, or even graze it, it can be somewhere to park money, or they just want a view. If you want a good reputation you do as you 'landlord' says, then you often get another plot.
Often the people who own the land have no idea of the law , and then someone takes advantage. I live among travellers and we have none of this, because they know the law, and they know landowners know it to , as they are big farms. I rented out a house on a room basis, we had 24/7 access, just so there was no tenancy, and I used it every day.

There's a lot of acres in Scotland leased on similar lines. The "tenant" offers the landowner rent equal to the sub, moves his sheep in, claims the sub, then pays that to the landowner for the rent. The landowner who has bought the land as an investment and knows nothing about farming and least of all sheep, goes away with a big smile thinking how well he has done on the deal with his pockets full of cash and none of the hassle of owning stock!

 

[kiwi pom]

I have been grazing thirty acres, on not even a handshake, it was bought as an investment. I have put temporary electric fencing up, piped water from my supply, but all on the cheap, and just have a verbal agreement every year for a box of beef. Not everyone who buys land wants to farm, or even graze it, it can be somewhere to park money, or they just want a view. If you want a good reputation you do as you 'landlord' says, then you often get another plot.
Often the people who own the land have no idea of the law , and then someone takes advantage. I live among travellers and we have none of this, because they know the law, and they know landowners know it to , as they are big farms. I rented out a house on a room basis, we had 24/7 access, just so there was no tenancy, and I used it every day.

You're the tenant or you own the ground?

 

[toquark]

I think it’s really unfair for you to assume this.

Don’t take it personally, he always pops up on these types of threads and sh1t stirs. Adding nothing constructive.

 

[glasshouse]

H

He doesn’t even pay any money to a couple of the families!!! One has around 200 acres and he pays them zero!!!

A deal is a deal
If they agree zero, they get zero.
Why didnt you go to agricultural college and get the same knowledge your farmer has? It doesnt come cheap.

 

[honeyend]

You're the tenant or you own the ground?

I would not say I am a tenant, I have use of the grazing for a box of beef.

 

[kiwi pom]

I would not say I am a tenant, I have use of the grazing for a box of beef.

So if the people who provide your grazing suddenly withdraw it where does it leave your business?
I'd always encourage people to do things correctly to protect both sides.
In this case the OP has been foolish, and it will end up costing them.

 

[Exfarmer]

I think the OP needs to give some idea of where in the UK he is from. I do wonder if he is actually based adross the water where the law may be very different

 

[ConnieJohn]

I think the OP needs to give some idea of where in the UK he is from. I do wonder if he is actually based adross the water where the law may be very different

Uk

I think the OP needs to give some idea of where in the UK he is from. I do wonder if he is actually based adross the water where the law may be very different

West Wales to be precise

 

[som farmer]

wait till he has no stock on there, and stock it yourself, and lock the gates.
you can get a court order, very quickly, to stop him removing the locks, two local farmers fell out over a share farming agreement. Farmer a, TB his dairy herd, lorries appeared, as soon as passed, and cows were gone.
By the next morning, gates padlocked/court notice, to stop farmer a, removing his gear etc.

plenty will know of this case ! An agreement was reached.

possession is 9/10's of the law

very mixed up case, if he want's to make a fight of it, he will.
might just think it's not worth it.

 

[Exfarmer]

Uk

West Wales to be precise

Just be aware harassing a tenant cn be considered a serious offence, even if the tenancy is assumed

 

[ajcc]

Just be aware harassing a tenant cn be considered a serious offence, even if the tenancy is assumed .

A serious offence by whom? We not talking poisoning the water source but refusing payment and chaining the gate. There is surely no entitlement to peaceful enjoyment without a recorded agreement specifying?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m staunch tenant but claiming land rights off a friend doesn’t sit right.

 

[Exfarmer]

A serious offence by whom? We not talking poisoning the water source but refusing payment and chaining the gate. There is surely no entitlement to peaceful enjoyment without a recorded agreement specifying?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m staunch tenant but claiming land rights off a friend doesn’t sit right.

I 100% agree with the sentiment of not claiming something which is not rightly theirs, however you must remember there is always two sides to a story and we have seen on this forum where people have farmed land for a long time thinking they had an informal agreement for a tenancy but are being pressured to vacate, by someone they had always treated as a friend.
Taking the matter into their own hands as being suggested by some without going through the proper channels can result possibly in heavy fines and the threat of jail in the extreme.
while i am sure that the OP is genuine the possibility is most likely the Grazier has gained a tenancy unless the OP can prove that he always removed his stock for somev period a year. The fact the OP had a couple of pet sheep and a donkey in the field at the same time would be unlikely to persaude a court otherwise I think.
I am not an expert in these matters at all

 

[Scholsey]

If you gave him 12 months notice to vacate the land, he doesn’t have a written tenancy agreement and certainly no written AHA agreement and you cracked on and started ploughing it 12 months after the notice, surely the ball is in his court to fight you rather than the other way round? Tell RPA you’ve removed him as a tenant and balls his claim up, I’d imagine losing 80 acres worth of his claim plus ballsing up the rest of his entitlements would sting a bit.