Livestock management after the drought

[Henarar]

Maybe. I only have a tiny hay store, everything has to get wrapped and that's expensive etc. They still waste a lot of hay in ring feeders compared with haylage

Where do you stop with buildings etc . They're Galloways

Not easy but its that or you have to find it when you need it like now.
"Bay of hay" can mean anything from a bay of hay to a field of standing hay to a stack of haylage, whatever I think backup is a good idea

 

[farmerm]

So where is best to buy bulk oats/barley? Can't be spending £15 for a bag if ewe feed!!!

From a nearby farm..

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I'm fortunate in some ways to only have 40 cows. The genetics are rare, the herd closed and naive health wise and ANY decision affecting my breeding position is likely to take up to 4 years due to maturation length etc , so I couldn't readily see myself as a trading farmer able to drop and then re-stock

I reckon it is fortunate, or maybe it's good design?
Why have big problems when they can be wee ones

One year I managed to convince a workmate with a smallholding that he really should get into autumn calving, soo much better than calving just after lambing I says

And then I put all our bulls over at his place and he fed 'em it got us out of a spot because we then had only one mob to rotate, and his cows all got well dipped for fluids

 

[som farmer]

at the moment, due to TB test, everything bar the cows, are housed, we start trucking them back out today, so some fields have had a weeks break, and it shows in some of the field, all pp, there is a green tinge on some, nothing on others.

So, if we get to a stage, where we need to feed stock, is it better to house, and feed, giving grass a recovery period, or just having a sacrifice area ? I know which l would prefer to do, but which is the better ?

We have 5-9 month old calves, smallest inside, as grass is 'restricted, on hay and conc, the largest have been out, on 2 kgs of cake, and the middle lot, been outside, on a creep feeder.
The 'worst' are the biggest lot, 2 kg cake. The extra cake, is because of lack of grass, and it will be interesting to see which lot, 'pays' the best.

I think with replacement dairy hfrs, aiming to calve at 24 months, its probably beneficial to ad lib them, especially where block calving operates, if you 'miss' target bulling weight, you either keep them another year, or sell them, both costing money, the extra expense, is probably cheaper, in the end. Some farmers house y/s in year one, so they can keep control on growth rates.

Beef calves, its obviously better to keep them growing, at max speed, its how much you can 'afford' to feed them, to make a profit, the other end. Then you can bring in your carbon foot print, that will only get more 'controlled'. Will the end price, be allowed to rise, to cover costs ?

 

[Al R]

1.5mm here and back dry, amazing how much the turnips have grown in 8 hours!!!

 

[CopperBeech]

Sow Lucerne.

Worked for Doug Avery

What exactly are they going to do when it rains in the winter ? Or temps drop low. Even Doug Avery said Lucerne wouldn’t work here. His suggestion was clover.

 

[Macsky]

What exactly are they going to do when it rains in the winter ? Or temps drop low. Even Doug Avery said Lucerne wouldn’t work here. His suggestion was clover.

Sow it in a mix? I think it’s pretty frost tolerant, maybe not so much the wet tho.

Listen to the news tho and we’re going to be frying more frequently so maybe that won’t be a worry for much longer.

 

[som farmer]

1.5mm here and back dry, amazing how much the turnips have grown in 8 hours!!!

lets hope ours do the same, drilled into stubble yesterday, sprinkling of rain all night, and today.

and thinking of putting some lucerne, in a new ley.

 

[Farmer Roy]

reckon its going to take several years of way above average rainfall, to get anywhere near to normal soil moisture.
We will keep assuming hotter drier summers, and less rain, is the new normal, then we can only be pleased, when we have a damp summer.
Of course, if we have those wet years, l will still 'moan' about them, because that is what farmers are expected to do, and we wouldn't want to disappoint anybody.

Watching on u'tube, re dry weather in aus, grass just looked brown and dead, yet the cattle grazing those pastures, supplemented with protein licks, looked fantastic, its all about how you manage problems.
Other parts, looked green and verdant, with oceans of grass, its a big country.

its a VERY big country, with 3 time zones & many more climate zones & environments

grass ( or more accurately, grazing species, what we’d just call “feed” ) doesn’t have to be green & lush to be good

inland Australia, you will see cattle fat & shiny, with soft poo, in areas that you would consider desert ( or at least, semi arid ), living on “dry” grass, herbage & shrubs, whereas on the wet coastal areas they will look poor & “wormy” because the grass is just full of water & has no “guts” to it.

when buying in store cattle, always better to buy ones from the inland than the coastal ones

 

[som farmer]

its a VERY big country, with 3 time zones & many more climate zones & environments

grass ( or more accurately, grazing species, what we’d just call “feed” ) doesn’t have to be green & lush to be good

inland Australia, you will see cattle fat & shiny, with soft poo, in areas that you would consider desert ( or at least, semi arid ), living on “dry” grass, herbage & shrubs, whereas on the wet coastal areas they will look poor & “wormy” because the grass is just full of water & has no “guts” to it.

when buying in store cattle, always better to buy ones from the inland than the coastal ones

we assume Aus is dry, but as you say, its a big country. And some parts are very green.
and have seen a lot of cattle on not a lot of grass/feed, and they look great.
even in our mini drought here, cattle tend to look well, every mouthful is very high DM.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What exactly are they going to do when it rains in the winter ? Or temps drop low. Even Doug Avery said Lucerne wouldn’t work here. His suggestion was clover.

Or grass....

Lucerne's fantastic if you want to get your lambs gone early before the drought hits.

But then those paddocks are bare [for winter] for longer than your drought is, so it's really only "a silver bullet" in particular circumstances.

 

[Farmer Roy]

we assume Aus is dry, but as you say, its a big country. And some parts are very green.
and have seen a lot of cattle on not a lot of grass/feed, and they look great.
even in our mini drought here, cattle tend to look well, every mouthful is very high DM.

big AND diverse . . .

from 10 degree South ( central Africa, South America, southern India )
to 55 degree South ( Alberta Canada, Omsk Russia, Derry Ireland )

and ranging from 112 degree East to 153 East - which is a similar range as western Ireland to central Turkey.

a lot of diverse landscapes, environments & climates in that little lot

 

[som farmer]

cousin in Aus retired now, they have bought a camper van, and are going to 'explore' their country, reckon it will take them a few years, to see it all.

 

[som farmer]

Or grass....

Lucerne's fantastic if you want to get your lambs gone early before the drought hits.

But then those paddocks are bare [for winter] for longer than your drought is, so it's really only "a silver bullet" in particular circumstances.

follow a canadian dairy farmer on u'tube, 300 cows, in a palace, must get paid a lot more for milk, than we do.
Their main bulk of silage, is 1100 acres of spring barley w/crop. They grow lucerne, but only 2 cuts, and some rye. Its very dry out there, sasatchakan, excuse spelling ! And some corn, for home use, canola.

Makes one think, perhaps something like that, could be a better/safer bet, than relying on grass, especially as we can grow winter wheat/barley. Or simply grow rye/vetch, for 'proper' w/c.
most of us dairy farmers, are focussed on grass and maize silage, or w/c, if you can't grow maize.

As soon as you look 'outside of the box', there are a lot of alternatives.
In a good year, you cannot really beat the grass/maize system. In a bad year, you can. There are a lot of poor maize crops about, and standing maize, is about £1,000 acre, and a lot of grass silage is less than required.

@FarmerRoy has one big advantage over us, he knows his 'normal' climate, and farms for it, here, we haven't really got a clue, we farm in 'hope' of a better year. We have decided to go for hotter/dryer summers, and when we get a decent year, make as much grub as you can, on a 'just in case' theory.
Right, or wrong policy ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

follow a canadian dairy farmer on u'tube, 300 cows, in a palace, must get paid a lot more for milk, than we do.
Their main bulk of silage, is 1100 acres of spring barley w/crop. They grow lucerne, but only 2 cuts, and some rye. Its very dry out there, sasatchakan, excuse spelling ! And some corn, for home use, canola.

Makes one think, perhaps something like that, could be a better/safer bet, than relying on grass, especially as we can grow winter wheat/barley. Or simply grow rye/vetch, for 'proper' w/c.
most of us dairy farmers, are focussed on grass and maize silage, or w/c, if you can't grow maize.

As soon as you look 'outside of the box', there are a lot of alternatives.
In a good year, you cannot really beat the grass/maize system. In a bad year, you can. There are a lot of poor maize crops about, and standing maize, is about £1,000 acre, and a lot of grass silage is less than required.

@FarmerRoy has one big advantage over us, he knows his 'normal' climate, and farms for it, here, we haven't really got a clue, we farm in 'hope' of a better year. We have decided to go for hotter/dryer summers, and when we get a decent year, make as much grub as you can, on a 'just in case' theory.
Right, or wrong policy ?

I don't know what's right and wrong.... only what works more or less of the time in the environments I've farmed in, and what works for others.

And, most of the time we would cut grass and get rain and not even consider it as being other than "our grass to take"

But summer doesn't care what you did, either there is lots of groundcover and perennial grasses to make the next rainfall effective, or there isn't.
Either the rest periods are long enough to span rain events, or they're not.

In our really changeable climate we can reasonably predict next summer will be warmer and drier than average many months ahead, it's la nina again... but it isn't such a "sure thing" that it warrants growing a specialist crop, because if we do or don't need it it still costs money and takes land out of grazing which increases drought risk (immediately) by taking a chunk out of the rest period and increasing the COC of our animals.

Same as making early silage and feeding it back out again, you can look at that phenomena in two ways, one guy says "glad I had some in the pit because we need it now" and another guy says "you took something away and put it back at your own cost" and both are quite correct

 

[JD-Kid]

dry we had a year ago worst every had in 20 years
but from it Lernt alot
wear sunscreen .....naaa but good advice

you cant make it rain so control what you can
know the cost of feed both on hand and cost to buy in
ewes good time for a clean out older ewes and others with lower lambing numbers are tradable stock costs very little more to feed a twinning ewe and get 2 lambs out of her
it will rain so invest in what will give best return and push them along
lambs cut losses early kill what you can at lower weights ditch very light ones will be hard work to finish them
watch worm counts as animals grazing lower so higher worm uptake
dont pay for a dry spell twice aim to recover fast
we feed out sheep nuts yes higher price per ton but better feed work out true costs and time feeding out
dont hammer paddocks the ones that will respond one it rains be easy on them rubbish paddocks trash and aim to put in a fast crop if rains
yes think of better crops but rembour they are 2 years away realy it's the here and now to control to get to that point
cut down hogget numbers better ewes will will make up the numbers faster protect core breeding flock to recover faster
we grazed out some hoggets so dont have a big gap in age groups that freed up some space for ewes and some just under weight lambs to finish
plan ahead if looking at putting in a crop when rains you and 5000 others will all be rushing to buy seed
talk to others check on the people next door a few beers and a yarn can do more for the soul

 

[som farmer]

dry we had a year ago worst every had in 20 years
but from it Lernt alot
wear sunscreen .....naaa but good advice

you cant make it rain so control what you can
know the cost of feed both on hand and cost to buy in
ewes good time for a clean out older ewes and others with lower lambing numbers are tradable stock costs very little more to feed a twinning ewe and get 2 lambs out of her
it will rain so invest in what will give best return and push them along
lambs cut losses early kill what you can at lower weights ditch very light ones will be hard work to finish them
watch worm counts as animals grazing lower so higher worm uptake
dont pay for a dry spell twice aim to recover fast
we feed out sheep nuts yes higher price per ton but better feed work out true costs and time feeding out
dont hammer paddocks the ones that will respond one it rains be easy on them rubbish paddocks trash and aim to put in a fast crop if rains
yes think of better crops but rembour they are 2 years away realy it's the here and now to control to get to that point
cut down hogget numbers better ewes will will make up the numbers faster protect core breeding flock to recover faster
we grazed out some hoggets so dont have a big gap in age groups that freed up some space for ewes and some just under weight lambs to finish
plan ahead if looking at putting in a crop when rains you and 5000 others will all be rushing to buy seed
talk to others check on the people next door a few beers and a yarn can do more for the soul

its all about planning ahead, as soon as you realise you are in the sh1t.
Its far more economical to keep buying some fodder, each month, rather than lots, when you run out.
Destocking is a hard choice, but a minimum of 10% of stock, on your farm, isn't paying its way, either non/slow do-ers, empty, or require a lot of work.

but the main thing is to realise you are in the shite, and do something about it !

 

[nails]

This thread may be interesting for all types of livestock. I'm kicking off with sheep.
I'm in Gloucestershire. Zero grass, unhappy ewes, lambs not growing. No access to any extra grazing. Feed prices doubled....no stock of hay. Can't see the grass recovering for winter .
Does one just accept it is a crazy year and throw money at it... feed until the lambs make weight?
Sell all lambs as stores and hope the grass recovers for winter for the ewes...
Stick firm and prey for rain??
Sell 1/3 of ewes to ease the burden..?
Interested what everyone else is doing...

Had some cattle farmers from Queensland staying here a while back. They had endured 3 years of drought and a lot of cattle were shot on the farm as they were too poor to transport to kill. That puts our less than a year's drought in perspective.
You either spend money and feed all your sheep or you reduce your numbers. The sensible thing to do is reduce your numbers and do less stock better.

 

[In the pit]

At the moment everyone seems to be focused on the drought and what other cropping options are available,but the hot dry weather has been 3 months, yet there was good grazing for the first 5 months of the year and probaly for the last three months of the year as long as you’re careful with the grazing after the rain

 

[sticky]

there was good grazing for the first 5 months of the year and probaly for the last three months of the year as long as you’re careful with the grazing after the rain

Maybe in your area.