New limits to SFI.

[Huno]

and the people who normally do the work ,supply or process the outputs of other farms etc (that havent had your misfortune ) will also loose their livelhoods -so what you say
-they are probably tax payers too

Glad i have insurance to cover injury and not being able to farm...using SFI is a very clever thing to do in the absence of cover.. fair call...

 

[digger64]

Glad i have insurance to cover injury and not being able to farm...using SFI is a very clever thing to do in the absence of cover.. fair call...

yes I agree

 

[andybk]

So what you are saying is BPS supported low food prices, specifically, exclusively lamb, pretty much the least commonly found product in a supermarket trolley. Sir, sir the pheasants are revolving... Why is that? The food sir, it is too expensive... Well let them eat lamb...

your missing the point , the BPS kept maybe unproductive farms in business which all added to overall supply of all farmed produce in the shops , this added to imports meant supermarkets dont have to worry about supply so can squeeze prices paid to farmers , its a delicate balance . Farmers would moan but as long as they are still in the game next year maybe it would be better ,the BPS underpinned overall production

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Has Drakeford taken over

 

[Huno]

Has Drakeford taken over

Drakeford has retired mate...

 

[Grass And Grain]

its easy to justify the return to the taxpayer you just dont want to it doesnt suit your narrative

simply explain the return to the economy and their pocket through the effect of lowering domestic food inflation by having home produce to compete with imports

its not a coiincidence we are seeing mass dispersals followed by all time record beef and sheep prices in the UK currently.........you just wont admit the facts staring you in the face,

wild bird seed =0 =return to the taxpayer

domestic food supply, jobs, food security and lower prices from bps = good value to taxpayer

Don't forget though, land taken out of production by SFI possibly means higher prices for our produce. I know that wasn't your point, but just saying SFI may be no bad thing for prices.
I think the government are bonkers, but hey ho.

Edit. Scotland might get beat of both worlds. England with reduced output due to SFI. Scotland still get some production subs like sucker cow/calf sub.

As I’ve written before. I’ve gone 100% into SFI. I had a bad injury late January. Broken bones. I had a panic attack and put the farm into it because I never planted the autumn crops because we are told to wait until late October for grassweed control. I looked at the payments and I looked at my recovery and I had the take the SFI. Owner occupied farm. if I got someone in to do the work I normally do I would have lost money.

Sensible move. The Combinables farmers with working calculators on average land have been putting big chunks into SFI. I know some comment the payments aren't quite high enough, but they trump a flea Beatle ridden OSR crop or droughted spring barley.

That’s the thing I’ve improved it so it’s not species rich grassland but they still don’t class it as improved so not sure what I can do

I'm quoting you from a couple of days back, when you were taking about all the big payments only available for arable options or species rich grasslands.

There's the leaving grass to set seed for winter bird food option (can't remember the SFI code for it). Something like £490/ha iirc.

Given you maybe either get a 1st cut or spring grazing, then leave for rest of summer and winter for the grass seed.... it isn't a million miles away from the arable SFI field scale non-cropping options.

The arable options need cultivating, drilling, rolling, topping possibly multiple times, then glyphosate and maybe flailing off again. Those costs pretty much absorb the difference between the SFI grassland £490 and the arable £650-800 options. In fact the grassland option is less work. You really could have put the whole farm in and gone to the south of France or got a second job. At least you could have done until the 25% cap.

 

[e3120]

I'm quoting you from a couple of days back, when you were taking about all the big payments only available for arable options or species rich grasslands.

There's the leaving grass to set seed for winter bird food option (can't remember the SFI code for it). Something like £490/ha iirc.

Given you maybe either get a 1st cut or spring grazing, then leave for rest of summer and winter for the grass seed.... it isn't a million miles away from the arable SFI field scale non-cropping options.

The arable options need cultivating, drilling, rolling, topping possibly multiple times, then glyphosate and maybe flailing off again. Those costs pretty much absorb the difference between the SFI grassland £490 and the arable £650-800 options. In fact the grassland option is less work. You really could have put the whole farm in and gone to the south of France or got a second job. At least you could have done until the 25% cap.

Only on temp & improved grassland.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Only on temp & improved grassland.

Yes.

Think livestock 1 was saying he couldn't get the better paying grassland options because he'd improved his grass (so it wasn't species rich low input type stuff).

 

[ollie989898]

@Abi Kay A freedom of information request to DEFRA asking who the 1% of applicants / farmers are would be interesting as would the response refusing to reveal the culprits.

Because the top 3 will be The National trust, the RSPB and some loon environmentalist who owns half of Scotland.

 

[Clive]

Because the top 3 will be The National trust, the RSPB and some loon environmentalist who owns half of Scotland.

such organisations should simply be banned from any ag support

that would be a better thing for farming unions to lobby for than capping as it would actually help farmers

 

[e3120]

Yes.

Think livestock 1 was saying he couldn't get the better paying grassland options because he'd improved his grass (so it wasn't species rich low input type stuff).

I don't like to speak for him, but thought he was trapped between too improved to be species rich, but still not classified as improved.

What use would the grass be in year 2? I would be worried about sliding down the habitat slope. At least those arable activities you quite rightly state nip that in the bud.

 

[livestock 1]

Don't forget though, land taken out of production by SFI possibly means higher prices for our produce. I know that wasn't your point, but just saying SFI may be no bad thing for prices.
I think the government are bonkers, but hey ho.

Edit. Scotland might get beat of both worlds. England with reduced output due to SFI. Scotland still get some production subs like sucker cow/calf sub.


Sensible move. The Combinables farmers with working calculators on average land have been putting big chunks into SFI. I know some comment the payments aren't quite high enough, but they trump a flea Beatle ridden OSR crop or droughted spring barley.

I'm quoting you from a couple of days back, when you were taking about all the big payments only available for arable options or species rich grasslands.

There's the leaving grass to set seed for winter bird food option (can't remember the SFI code for it). Something like £490/ha iirc.

Given you maybe either get a 1st cut or spring grazing, then leave for rest of summer and winter for the grass seed.... it isn't a million miles away from the arable SFI field scale non-cropping options.

The arable options need cultivating, drilling, rolling, topping possibly multiple times, then glyphosate and maybe flailing off again. Those costs pretty much absorb the difference between the SFI grassland £490 and the arable £650-800 options. In fact the grassland option is less work. You really could have put the whole farm in and gone to the south of France or got a second job. At least you could have done until the 25% cap.

If only it was that simple. Winter bird food is only available on improved grassland. The vast majority of hill farms only have a small amount of improved grassland. That would normally count as the meadow land on a hill farm. Given that the cropping area for a hill farm is in short supply and vital to its overall business structure it’s not an option that can be taken unless the farm is on a wind down or stop operation.

 

[livestock 1]

As I’ve stated on numerous occasions the issue is that they have classified farmland in various categories in the past which is restricting what options are available to us.

 

[livestock 1]

Yes.

Think livestock 1 was saying he couldn't get the better paying grassland options because he'd improved his grass (so it wasn't species rich low input type stuff).

Sorry just read this. There’s a useful payment which is species rich grassland that reading the spec would fit some of our land. Unfortunately when looking at the map we don’t qualify for this option. Our land that maybe would qualify has had some phosphate correction, some lime some invasive weed control some fertiliser. The map only has land included which has been farmed in the severest ‘hungry’ manner looking at it or maybe in some cases has something special plant wise.
The improvements we have made don’t make it improved grassland just as stated above something in between.

 

[topground]

If BPS enabled food producers to deliver food to the market at less than the cost of production when will those food producers find something else to do as in drive a van for TESCO rather than lose money when SFI is recognised as a failure?
When will the impact on the rural economy begin to be noticed?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Sorry just read this. There’s a useful payment which is species rich grassland that reading the spec would fit some of our land. Unfortunately when looking at the map we don’t qualify for this option. Our land that maybe would qualify has had some phosphate correction, some lime some invasive weed control some fertiliser. The map only has land included which has been farmed in the severest ‘hungry’ manner looking at it or maybe in some cases has something special plant wise.
The improvements we have made don’t make it improved grassland just as stated above something in between.

It's a bit rubbish if you've got grassland which sits in-between the two classification, so can't access either SFI classifications and hence options.

We have some similar, although ours is lowland watermeadow type stuff. It's not species rich, but equally doesn't really look like massively improved and productive ryegrass. If we reseed with ryegrass it reverts to the indigenous grasses after 4-5 years. Don't recon legumes will grow either.

Personally I think, given DEFRA are willing to pay arable farmers for overwinter cover crops, no insecticide, companion crops, low disturbance drilling, buffer zones and legume fallow.... that they should pay grassland farmers for simply having grass. It does all the things those arable options do, but probably better.

Tbf the grass seed set for winter bird food isn't easy to achieve either. Probably east with ryegrass, but in 2023 we couldn't get the hay cut end of June like normal, it was 1st week of Sept when we got any sunshine. All the seeds had dropped. But with those grasses, if we take a first silage cut which might be end of may or early June, then those grass species grows a vegetative leaf and don't send up a seed head through that later summer period. So haven't yet worked out how we can get any SFI with them. It's maybe wet enough for wader habitat, few curlews and oyster catchers about, but it can dry out in late spring, and we can't raise ditch water levels as it would affect neighbour's drainage.

 

[livestock 1]

It's a bit rubbish if you've got grassland which sits in-between the two classification, so can't access either SFI classifications and hence options.

We have some similar, although ours is lowland watermeadow type stuff. It's not species rich, but equally doesn't really look like massively improved and productive ryegrass. If we reseed with ryegrass it reverts to the indigenous grasses after 4-5 years. Don't recon legumes will grow either.

Personally I think, given DEFRA are willing to pay arable farmers for overwinter cover crops, no insecticide, companion crops, low disturbance drilling, buffer zones and legume fallow.... that they should pay grassland farmers for simply having grass. It does all the things those arable options do, but probably better.

Tbf the grass seed set for winter bird food isn't easy to achieve either. Probably east with ryegrass, but in 2023 we couldn't get the hay cut end of June like normal, it was 1st week of Sept when we got any sunshine. All the seeds had dropped. But with those grasses, if we take a first silage cut which might be end of may or early June, then those grass species grows a vegetative leaf and don't send up a seed head through that later summer period. So haven't yet worked out how we can get any SFI with them. It's maybe wet enough for wader habitat, few curlews and oyster catchers about, but it can dry out in late spring, and we can't raise ditch water levels as it would affect neighbour's drainage.

Yes I agree. What unsettles me is nothing adds up. There’s no theme to follow. The only common theme is payments are leant towards lower production or no production. I’m concerned what they are up to.

 

[Henarar]

We have some similar, although ours is lowland watermeadow type stuff. It's not species rich, but equally doesn't really look like massively improved and productive ryegrass. If we reseed with ryegrass it reverts to the indigenous grasses after 4-5 years. Don't recon legumes will grow either.

Low input ?

 

[Case290]

I don’t think they know them selves grants for production payments for no production. It’s very confusing.. Offer an environmental scheme to basically with draw it months later.

 

[britishblue]

If BPS enabled food producers to deliver food to the market at less than the cost of production when will those food producers find something else to do as in drive a van for TESCO rather than lose money when SFI is recognised as a failure?
When will the impact on the rural economy begin to be noticed?

An article in The Telegraph about farmers going to the benefits office to get universal credit and being told their farms are just a hobby and to go and get a better paying job! Is this what we have become? barstewards running water companies paying themselves millions in bonuses and some poor bugger grafting away unable to feed his kids.