Oats as a cover crop ?

[Clive]

I'm no fan of oats in cover crops

BUT

how about using FFS spring oats seed ahead of a spring oat crop ? should the allelopathy be inconsequential as cash crop is favoured by dead cover crop ? will the cover crop build the right spectrums of fungi / bacteria to help the cash crop oats get away fast ?

how early would spring oats frost kill ?

anyone done this successfully ?

 

[Louis Mc]

We used a spring oat variety (barra) as cover crop before our beans this year. Works really well ahead of beans I think but I would be reluctant to use them ahead of oats(or any cereal) as I think the breakdown of the residue may have a negative affect on the young plants.
Having said that your theory about bacteria/fungi may have something in it.
Last year the frost just checked them but they came back so we drilled into them green

 

[franklin]

Our spring oats laughed off the frosts this year. Established mid September.

 

[Robert]

The oats in our spring oat bias cover crop all died remarkably readily this winter. Got most of it grazed earlyish though and sprayed remnants 6 weeks in advance of spring oats and spring beans which both look very respectable.

 

[H.Jackson]

2nd year of spring oat either as or part of a cover crop no winter kill seen yet oats after did very well last year and peas after look great at the moment harvest will tell.

 

[shakerator]

I'm no fan of oats in cover crops

BUT

how about using FFS spring oats seed ahead of a spring oat crop ? should the allelopathy be inconsequential as cash crop is favoured by dead cover crop ? will the cover crop build the right spectrums of fungi / bacteria to help the cash crop oats get away fast ?

how early would spring oats frost kill ?

anyone done this successfully ?

Clive

My strategy is based around blackgrass so take it for what it is....but how about a very light pass with the carrier behind the combine after spring oats, and let that volunteer chit grow throughout the winter. I sprayed off a big carpet of canyon in March drilling spring wheat 5 days later. The wheat was slow to establish, but no grass weeds so a success. I would rather have a little allelopathy than stunting from a pre em. No pain no gain, and I think allopathy can be selective to the size of the seed, I.e. Affects BG more than wheat......Spring oats after oats ok but there will be oat specifc pest carryover but may not matter a la dwayne beck stacked rotation??

The gap between spraying off and drilling becomes less relevant above 3 weeks according to the published work. So we will see what results with 5 days
I like the idea of spring legumes into freshly destroyed oat cover however.....

If you get killing frosts then less glyphosate required and allelopathy dilemma removed

 

[martian]

I don't know what sort of oats Pedders sticks in his mixes ( @Pedders ?) but we've had some oats in early drilled covers practically coming on ear in late winter before now and succombing to frost and dying back nicely before we want to drill. Always imagined that they were spring

 

[snowhite]

ever here of brazilian oats it fixes n in the soil like clover but i can't rember if it dies after think it has to be killed you sow about 25/30kg ha

 

[Suffolk boy]

ever here of brazilian oats it fixes n in the soil like clover but i can't rember if it dies after think it has to be killed you sow about 25/30kg ha

Brazilian Oats are more commonly known as Black Oats Avena Strigosa, they are not legumes and therefore do not fix nitrogen. They can be frost killed but it's not a guarantee in the UK as the recent winters are not cold enough. They can also be called, Bristle Oats, Japanese Oats, Lopsided Oats and Pointed Oats.

 

[snowhite]

Brazilian Oats are more commonly known as Black Oats Avena Strigosa,they are not legumes and therefore do not fix nitrogen. They can be frost killed but it's not a guarantee in the UK as the recent winters are not cold enough. They can also be called, Bristle Oats, Japanese Oats, Lopsided Oats and Pointed Oats.

so we are not talking about the same oats , i might be able look up the name in french ,

 

[GBF]

Brazilian Oats are more commonly known as Black Oats Avena Strigosa, they are not legumes and therefore do not fix nitrogen. They can be frost killed but it's not a guarantee in the UK as the recent winters are not cold enough. They can also be called, Bristle Oats, Japanese Oats, Lopsided Oats and Pointed Oats.

How closely related are black oats to wild oats?

 

[Suffolk boy]

How closely related are black oats to wild oats?

Not sure to be honest, but probably quite closely I would expect.

 

[all_arable]

After going to a few meetings about cover crops in the last few weeks, it's fair to say that it is probably the 'in thing' to be doing; and probably for good merit.

The only problem that I have is some of the pre-bagged mixtures have too many unnecessary additions examples are buckwheat which will die as soon as it reaches 0degC.

Also I can't really find anything to choose between oil radish and tillage radish, but do worry about the decomposition of a thick tillage radish in a direct drilling situation.

Lastly the cereal content, oats looks like the prefered option in black grass suppression but is back oats worth £1,50 /kg instead of just spring oats, the other option is rye which I think may harbour more problems going into a following spring cereal

 

[Louis Mc]

I also wonder about the benefit of tillage raddish over oilseed. Saying you need tillage raddish in the mix seems to me a bit like saying you need to plough to establish crops.....but I could be wrong. It is more expensive too

 

[all_arable]

I also wonder about the benefit of tillage raddish over oilseed. Saying you need tillage raddish in the mix seems to me a bit like saying you need to plough to establish crops.....but I could be wrong. It is more expensive too

Good point well put, radishes are also a worry in a osr rotation. The majority of our land is currently 1 in 6 but some is 1 in 4 osr rotation so clubroot is to be considered even with our alkaline soils.

Osr is also a very lazy rooter, I've been told tillage radish isn't but unsure about oil radish

 

[Suffolk boy]

Good point well put, radishes are also a worry in a osr rotation. The majority of our land is currently 1 in 6 but some is 1 in 4 osr rotation so clubroot is to be considered even with our alkaline soils.

Osr is also a very lazy rooter, I've been told tillage radish isn't but unsure about oil radish

@all_arable There are clubroot resistant varieties of Oil Radish

 

[Pedders]

After going to a few meetings about cover crops in the last few weeks, it's fair to say that it is probably the 'in thing' to be doing; and probably for good merit.

The only problem that I have is some of the pre-bagged mixtures have too many unnecessary additions examples are buckwheat which will die as soon as it reaches 0degC.

Also I can't really find anything to choose between oil radish and tillage radish, but do worry about the decomposition of a thick tillage radish in a direct drilling situation.

Lastly the cereal content, oats looks like the prefered option in black grass suppression but is back oats worth £1,50 /kg instead of just spring oats, the other option is rye which I think may harbour more problems going into a following spring cereal

The role of the warm season plants .buckwheat sunflower millet et al is to try and get some rapid growth in the late summer and early autumn when temperatures are still reasonably high ...this growth will be above ground but also below ...so even if it is killed by frost later on the roots will have already done their job scavenging nutrients and conditioning the soil ...the cool season plants should then take over ..vetches oats linseed radish turnips etc they will continue to grow and continue cycling nutrients albeit more slowly

IMHO oats make up an excellent constituent to any of the cover crop mixes despite what Clive says ..their roots will leave the soil in fantastic condition and not being take all hosts they help break the cycle of that plus sheep love them if you're planning to graze.

adding a bit of radish or turnip into the rotation as part of a diverse mix will not compromise much in respect of clubroot as both of theses species are pretty much resistant.. so feel that's a bit of a red herring to be honest as is any concerns about sclerotinia .


In addition I am not convinced that sowing either the tillage type radishes or black oats have such a significantly better result that it is worth paying a lot more money for them compared to using conventional spring oats or oil radishes. .

 

[all_arable]

@all_arable There are clubroot resistant varieties of Oil Radish

True, but it's not a good situation for you to get your self into, to have to start relying on resistant varieties.

 

[Pedders]

True, but it's not a good situation for you to get your self into, to have to start relying on resistant varieties.

you don't

 

[Great In Grass]

@all_arable There are clubroot resistant varieties of Oil Radish

Resistant/tolerant yes but can still be susceptible.