Report breach of Agricultural tie

[sheepfarmer2023]

Ah ok, I can see where you are coming from there but that is a situation happening all over the country. We have older generations still residing in the main farmhouse "because it is their home" but they aren't the ones doing the farming. The youngsters seek alternative accomodation and the council say "but there is a farmhouse and you are the farmer". Succession is flawed without movement from the older generation.

Yes this is the issue, the parents no longer farm because some of them have health conditions etc, but you can't very well expect them to move out so the only alternative is for them to seek alternative accommodation, which is impossible in the area, and as I've said repeatedly, the whole point in these properties with AOC is so local farmers can farm.. locally...

 

[honeyend]

We used to have a lot of land settlement houses near us, with a tie, mostly there is not enough land with them and also not that many people who could satisfy the tie, would want to live in them so most of the owners did not work on the land. Finally after over twenty years the tie has been taken off, each plot now has an extra house on it, which is actually of better use for the locals.
Our asbestos, yes completely asbestos sheet bungalow built like a timber frame shed, and the tied house next door, were built on the cheap for one farm, and would never pass modern building regs. They sell for not a lot of money because of the tie, and usually no one will invest to upgrade them as they will not get the investment back. The tie off the house next door has been removed, but its still a pretty poor standard house and needs knocking down.

 

[betweenthelines]

I dont understand... why would they have to quit their current activities? The farms they work on are all within the same area so this particular house would mean travelling less than a mile for any of them... and they could also expand their current business by utilising the land that comes with the house.

How could they flog the farmhouse off for big bucks if they are living in it?!

So they would continue to do what they are currently doing while living in the AOC property? Which is what the current tenant is doing.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

So they would continue to do what they are currently doing while living in the AOC property? Which is what the current tenant is doing.

But the current tenant is not doing so in agriculture - that is the difference here.

 

[sheepfarmer2023]

So they would continue to do what they are currently doing while living in the AOC property? Which is what the current tenant is doing.

but the current occupier has nothing to do with agriculture, or fishing or forestry, not even remotely so no, its not the same.

 

[Bongodog]

I once sat at a Parish council planning meeting where the 1st agenda item was an application for a AOC dwelling on a smallholding, a highly detailed report from Acorus Bury St Edmunds showed how the applicant could erect greenhouses and make a living from 5 acres.
The 3rd agenda item was an application to lift a AOC from a home on a 5 acre holding with greenhouses already in place as it was impossible to make a living from such a set up, the proposal being justified on the basis of a report from Acorus Bury St Edmunds !!!
I did comment that it semmed that said company was very prepared to lean in the "right direction"
Our district council however felt that such professionals are beyond reproach and both lifted and imposed a tie in our village within days of each other.

 

[David.]

They put their offers in via the estate agent, so that would have been noted, but as for the planning department i wouldn't have thought so

Then they ought to have done so.
Planners should operate on the information presented to them; they need evidence that these unsuccessful attempted sales to "prove" absence local demand, are no more than an utter sham.

 

[DrWazzock]

They are a complete sham. A 2mm high advert in the farmers weekly. Then I made an enquiry and was told to bugger off. Next thing there’s “ No demand” and tie is lifted. I felt a bit sorry for the old boy selling though and don’t think much of the planning dept so I didn’t grass.

 

[Sid]

Parish councillors using a local business here without planning permission, they are supposed to be the eyes and ears on the ground.
Don't know where the parish boundaries are, asked me in a parish council meeting where a planning application was to.

Whole system is a joke.


But to the OP, it's really frustrating when your caught on the wrong side of the system.
5 years to get a barn conversion, council dragging their heels.
5 years to get refused a wind turbine, that was approved by planning inspectorate , because no longer government policy,

 

[Ffermer Bach]

So the three farmers who were bidding for the place would have quit all their other farming activities in order to live on the property, pay the mortgage and make a living from it? Otherwise I see little difference between them and the current occupier, living there, but working elsewhere.

And, of course, none of the three had a thought about buying the AOC place and flogging off the original farmhouse to an incomer for big bucks?

an agricultural tie often does not state "have to make a living from this unit" rather, work or previously worked (before retirement) in agriculture locally (or the spouse of someone who did).

 

[Sid]

an agricultural tie often does not state "have to make a living from this unit" rather, work or previously worked (before retirement) in agriculture locally (or the spouse of someone who did).

Or dependent? @George from SJM Planning

 

[DairyNerd]

an agricultural tie often does not state "have to make a living from this unit" rather, work or previously worked (before retirement) in agriculture locally (or the spouse of someone who did).

Exactly, and the person in question could surely at least rent it out to someone working in agriculture rather than a family member who does not. He may not get a big rent but you know that when you take on an AOC. I know plenty of people working in agriculture who would be interested in rented 5, 10, 20 acre or more farm/smallholding and running it part time while working.

 

[Walton2]

You should report it to Planning Enforcement at the Local Authority - most have an online reporting system. It is likely that they are in breach of a planning condition (or worst a Section 106 agreement) and if the breach had not been for a period of over 10 years it will be enforcable.

I appreciate the numebr of comments about keeping out of it but that is what allows the planning system to be abused. I have clients desperate to build properties on their farms because councils have been happy to remove AOC ties in recent years - had they not been so happy to remove the ties there would still be affordable properties for agricultural workers to buy.

@ George from SJM Planning.Is that period of over 10 years the time limit on all breaches of planning permission? I was told that because a neighbour had raised the water level of a stream (without PP) 8 years ago, and the Local Authority had not been informed within 4 years….the Local Authority could take no action.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

@ George from SJM Planning.Is that period of over 10 years the time limit on all breaches of planning permission? I was told that because a neighbour had raised the water level of a stream (without PP) 8 years ago, and the Local Authority had not been informed within 4 years….the Local Authority could take no action.

10 years is only for change of use or breach of condition. 4 years for any other development

 

[Walton2]

10 years is only for change of use or breach of condition. 4 years for any other development

Thanks for making that clear.

 

[roscoe erf]

I'm genuinely confused about the negative comments on this thread. I did join to ask this question but I had not been a member of this forum previously before today so whatever other threads you think I am on, I can assure you I am not.

I honestly don't understand why people have a problem with young hardworking farmers wanting to continue to do so and actually live in the area they work in, rather than having to travel miles to and from their base every day.

You are wrong to assume they wouldn't be able to afford it - it has an agricultural tie for a reason, to make it affordable, and it is affordable to every single young farmer in the area, this was proven when it actually went up for sale - but the owner was not expecting anyone to come forward which is why it got taken down quickly after several offers went in.

Some of the farmers are running their parents farms, others are just running their own business within their parents farms, but none of them are able to live in the area as it's too expensive, so other than than kick their parents out of their family homes they've had no choice but to move away.

Planning of new dwellings is not allowed in the area so what other choice do they have.

I very much doubt that even with an ag tie it would be affordable to young farmers when the most of the buying public are borrowing up 5 times there joint wages just to get a start on the ladder

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I very much doubt that even with an ag tie it would be affordable to young farmers when the most of the buying public are borrowing up 5 times there joint wages just to get a start on the ladder

Generally an AOC reduces a property price by 30% so more achievable for a farm worker (and partner) to raise a mortgage on.

 

[Jsmith2211]

As a young farmer myself... I can barely afford to buy a damn tedder let alone a house and small farm! If i didn't have the family farm and the support from that i'd never be able to do anything. People who think young farmers are just going to go out and buy a farm are delusional at best...

 

[Tim W]

There is a small holding in our local village and the owner no longer farms, moved abroad and is now sub-renting to a member of his family who does not work in the village, let alone in agriculture.
The farm is not being used, the fields are just used for the current occupier to go offroading. There's a queue of young farmers desperate for their own property/farm, The property has an agricultural tie and there have been numerous attempts by the owner to remove the tie which have always been refused - so this is obviously his way of getting around the system.

Who can I report it to?

Local planning authority
We went through this recently when buying a property with an ag tie
It will depend on the wording in the tie ...act sooner rather than later , just ask to see the planning consent & if you think it's breached point it out to planners and local council ( parish council were very helpful to me)

 

[Sid]

As a young farmer myself... I can barely afford to buy a damn tedder let alone a house and small farm! If i didn't have the family farm and the support from that i'd never be able to do anything. People who think young farmers are just going to go out and buy a farm are delusional at best...

I know of 3 young farmers building houses locally here.

What's a house cost to build now? 240-300k?


Bank of mum and dad helping all 3