Right to refuse after buying tractor or machinery from a dealer if not as described

[fieldfarmer]

Just been to a main dealer too see a sold as seen tractor for yard work. Glad I did, had to be seen, pictures and price seemed reasonable!

Obviously not a main dealer but certainly a dealer but there was a story going round a few years back of someone going to a yard to view a tidy looking tractor and subsequently buying said tractor with free delivery included in the deal for a lesser rougher tractor to be sat in there own yard after delivery not the one they thought they had bought.

 

[AlCapone]

I have been buying machines and vehicles for a long time bought as seen no comebacks
Had a few problems with the matbro teleram 3 nothing I couldn’t fix myself
When I go to see a machine I turn up earlier so I can see how it starts cold
if you are deciding what tractor to buy this summer I have clocked up quite a few road miles lugging bales with a zetor and I liked it
Finally I am looking at buying a truck and it will be be from a well known auction site

 

[Timbo]

Maybe go with the mindset it’s your responsibility to make sure what you’re buying is right rather than not do due diligence and cry about it after

1000% this. Take someone familiar with the brand with you, be prepared to spend 2 - 3 hrs with it , away from saleman, in back of yard, on small side road etc running it upto full temp trying every gear, all the linkage, pto, ligjts, everything, establish whats good and whats not and whats acceptable to you vs its age and against the money its priced at.

Then decide if or what you want the dealer to address both foc and paid for to make it upto your level of scratch.

Be prepared to do some tinkering at home if you do buy, and also be realistic about what you can tackle and what you actually will tackle.

 

[bravheart]

Obviously not a main dealer but certainly a dealer but there was a story going round a few years back of someone going to a yard to view a tidy looking tractor and subsequently buying said tractor with free delivery included in the deal for a lesser rougher tractor to be sat in there own yard after delivery not the one they thought they had bought.

More than rumours trading standards were involved. There's a name comes up often in this type of discussion. Not going to name name's but the hints in the threads.

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

here is the AI answer

I'm not a lawyer, but in the UK, consumer rights generally apply to goods purchased from businesses and not private sellers. Here's a general overview based on your questions:

1. **Consumer Rights Act 2015**: When you buy goods from a business, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides certain protections. The goods must be:
- **Of satisfactory quality**: This means the tractor should be free from minor defects, safe, and durable for a reasonable length of time.
- **Fit for a particular purpose**: If you've specified a particular need to the seller, the tractor should meet that need.
- **As described**: The tractor should match any description given by the seller.

2. **Right to Reject**: Under the Consumer Rights Act, you have a short-term right to reject goods that are unsatisfactory in terms of quality, fitness for purpose, or description. This period is typically up to 30 days from the purchase. If the tractor is found to be faulty within this period, you can return it and get a full refund.

3. **Private Sellers**: If you buy from a private seller, the tractor just has to be 'as described'. The legal principle here is 'caveat emptor' or 'buyer beware'. The onus is on you, the buyer, to check the goods before purchase. However, if the private seller misrepresents the tractor (e.g., not disclosing known faults), you might have some legal recourse.

4. **Sold As Seen**: Some dealers might sell machinery "sold as seen", which can mean that you're accepting the tractor with all its faults, whether you've seen them or not. However, dealers can't avoid their responsibilities under the Consumer Rights Act by using this term.

5. **Warranty**: Even if a tractor doesn't come with a manufacturer's warranty due to its age, some dealers might offer their own warranties or guarantees. It's worth asking about this and getting any agreement in writing.

6. **Advice**: Before making a purchase, especially for something as significant as a tractor, it might be wise to have the machinery inspected by a professional or someone knowledgeable. This can give you peace of mind about the purchase and highlight any potential issues.

7. **Machinery Dealers**: While I can provide general advice, it might be beneficial to get insights directly from machinery dealers in the UK or consult legal advice to understand your rights in depth.

Remember, the information provided here is general in nature, and if you have specific concerns or questions, it's always a good idea to consult with legal professionals or relevant experts in the UK.

The final paragraph above is the helpful one. The first thing to do is work out what is the applicable law.
Here is one of the key definitions in the Consumer Rights Act:

Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession.

Thus regular farmers are stuck with the other laws on sale of goods which are different.
Sale by description is a concept which a large number of sellers have not fully appreciated and understood. This is often the first line of attack for an unhappy buyer.
Applying the law is one thing, business development is different. Judgment is required.
We have been fairly loyal to one business for a lifetime because when father bought a used tractor and then it needed a major engine overhaul (even though low hours) the dealer took it away and fixed it. No drama. Folks remember things like that. Not that they fixed it, they didn’t try to wriggle.

 

[thesilentone]

Pleased to see someone considering the matter before bailing in.

The Consumer law is there to protect you, however above a certain value it may not apply, as it is assumed anyone buying high value items will be diligent and a bespoke sales contract may exist.

The cooling off period may apply, however it depends what you agree to.

Sold as seen ?

In working condition ?

In good condition ?

Spares or repair ?

No warranty implied or given ?

Cash on delivery ?

No returns accepted ?

Check it out thoroughly, and make sure your happy before committing.

The small print is usually on the bottom of the invoice.

 

[puntabrava]

My advice would be to look at some of the Devon auctioneers that have online auctions every few months and encompass farm dispersal sales within them with genuine machinery on offer, KIVELLS would be a starting point.

 

[britishblue]

Last year we went to a well known dealer and looked at a 4 year old JCB forklift. We pointed out a few issues and were assured it would go through the workshop and everything would be put right. The forklift was delivered with nothing attended to. On the first day of use it got half way round the steading and overheated.
When we contacted the dealer he said don't worry we will put it right. Having recieved the forklift with nothing previous having been attended to I had as much faith in the dealer as F**K All. He refused to take it back so I involved a lawyer who explained we had the right to return. Let's just say I would never cross that dealers doorstep again and have since spoken to a few who have had similar issues!

 

[Al R]

My advice would be to look at some of the Devon auctioneers that have online auctions every few months and encompass farm dispersal sales within them with genuine machinery on offer, KIVELLS would be a starting point.

Stags another, bought some items on the online auctions, 1 was sent straight for a factory returb and another arrived yesterday but I knew it was sound as so young - never bought a tractor online though.

i Bought a boom spreader from a very well known dealer a few months back, he did say If I had issues he’d give me what I paid for it. I had a few to many issues with it and as much as I wanted the machine to work it was not fit for purpose so I paid the haulage back and he paid once it arrived back with him. I would recommend him and would also purchase from him again - the machine in question was sold to him as fully working etc and without doing field work you’d never know the issues were there

 

[MF CI]

I suppose back in the old days when dealers were a family business if you had a problem it was easy to get right to owner of the company and get stuff sorted. They were trying to build and keep a good reputation, plenty of competition for them all around.
Nowadays with most dealers being a branch of a multi outlet group and the sales staff are just employees, who has sales manager, who has a branch manager, who has a sales director trying to maximise profit. Echo this across the service and parts departments and you can see how no matter what your area sales person promises to fix for you it may not be so easy.

 

[Alistair Nelson]

I suppose back in the old days when dealers were a family business if you had a problem it was easy to get right to owner of the company and get stuff sorted. They were trying to build and keep a good reputation, plenty of competition for them all around.
Nowadays with most dealers being a branch of a multi outlet group and the sales staff are just employees, who has sales manager, who has a branch manager, who has a sales director trying to maximise profit. Echo this across the service and parts departments and you can see how no matter what your area sales person promises to fix for you it may not be so easy.

The quintessential family dealership though was one of the worst.

sorry couldn’t resist.

 

[smcapstick]

If you buy from a good independent dealer, you have a better chance of getting a comprehensive, honest and accurate description of the machine.
Even a friendly salesman at a franchised dealer will have limited knowledge of a trade in, as they’re not on the tools.

Sold as seen means nothing if the tractor is advertised as good working order. A tractor sold as working must have all basic functions working - that is to say, it needs to start, drive for extended periods, lift and work it’s PTO.

Reasonable wear for age is a thing, too - you can’t legally expect perfection when it’s an older tractor. That does not mean the vendor can misrepresent, though - he can’t claim the air conditioning works when it does not, for example.
Nor are you covered for servicing. A commercial business is responsible for the maintenance of company equipment. If you’re down on power or spluttering to a stop but you have not changed your fuel filters, you’ll be laughed out of court… likely with a bill for the other party’s fees, too.

Buy with your eyes open and listen to the seller. The attitude of the vendor tells you almost as much about the machine as the description does.

 

[spitfire]

here is the AI answer

I'm not a lawyer, but in the UK, consumer rights generally apply to goods purchased from businesses and not private sellers. Here's a general overview based on your questions:

1. **Consumer Rights Act 2015**: When you buy goods from a business, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides certain protections. The goods must be:
- **Of satisfactory quality**: This means the tractor should be free from minor defects, safe, and durable for a reasonable length of time.
- **Fit for a particular purpose**: If you've specified a particular need to the seller, the tractor should meet that need.
- **As described**: The tractor should match any description given by the seller.

2. **Right to Reject**: Under the Consumer Rights Act, you have a short-term right to reject goods that are unsatisfactory in terms of quality, fitness for purpose, or description. This period is typically up to 30 days from the purchase. If the tractor is found to be faulty within this period, you can return it and get a full refund.

3. **Private Sellers**: If you buy from a private seller, the tractor just has to be 'as described'. The legal principle here is 'caveat emptor' or 'buyer beware'. The onus is on you, the buyer, to check the goods before purchase. However, if the private seller misrepresents the tractor (e.g., not disclosing known faults), you might have some legal recourse.

4. **Sold As Seen**: Some dealers might sell machinery "sold as seen", which can mean that you're accepting the tractor with all its faults, whether you've seen them or not. However, dealers can't avoid their responsibilities under the Consumer Rights Act by using this term.

5. **Warranty**: Even if a tractor doesn't come with a manufacturer's warranty due to its age, some dealers might offer their own warranties or guarantees. It's worth asking about this and getting any agreement in writing.

6. **Advice**: Before making a purchase, especially for something as significant as a tractor, it might be wise to have the machinery inspected by a professional or someone knowledgeable. This can give you peace of mind about the purchase and highlight any potential issues.

7. **Machinery Dealers**: While I can provide general advice, it might be beneficial to get insights directly from machinery dealers in the UK or consult legal advice to understand your rights in depth.

Remember, the information provided here is general in nature, and if you have specific concerns or questions, it's always a good idea to consult with legal professionals or relevant experts in the UK.

here is the AI answer

I'm not a lawyer, but in the UK, consumer rights generally apply to goods purchased from businesses and not private sellers. Here's a general overview based on your questions:

1. **Consumer Rights Act 2015**: When you buy goods from a business, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides certain protections. The goods must be:
- **Of satisfactory quality**: This means the tractor should be free from minor defects, safe, and durable for a reasonable length of time.
- **Fit for a particular purpose**: If you've specified a particular need to the seller, the tractor should meet that need.
- **As described**: The tractor should match any description given by the seller.

2. **Right to Reject**: Under the Consumer Rights Act, you have a short-term right to reject goods that are unsatisfactory in terms of quality, fitness for purpose, or description. This period is typically up to 30 days from the purchase. If the tractor is found to be faulty within this period, you can return it and get a full refund.

3. **Private Sellers**: If you buy from a private seller, the tractor just has to be 'as described'. The legal principle here is 'caveat emptor' or 'buyer beware'. The onus is on you, the buyer, to check the goods before purchase. However, if the private seller misrepresents the tractor (e.g., not disclosing known faults), you might have some legal recourse.

4. **Sold As Seen**: Some dealers might sell machinery "sold as seen", which can mean that you're accepting the tractor with all its faults, whether you've seen them or not. However, dealers can't avoid their responsibilities under the Consumer Rights Act by using this term.

5. **Warranty**: Even if a tractor doesn't come with a manufacturer's warranty due to its age, some dealers might offer their own warranties or guarantees. It's worth asking about this and getting any agreement in writing.

6. **Advice**: Before making a purchase, especially for something as significant as a tractor, it might be wise to have the machinery inspected by a professional or someone knowledgeable. This can give you peace of mind about the purchase and highlight any potential issues.

7. **Machinery Dealers**: While I can provide general advice, it might be beneficial to get insights directly from machinery dealers in the UK or consult legal advice to understand your rights in depth.

Remember, the information provided here is general in nature, and if you have specific concerns or questions, it's always a good idea to consult with legal professionals or relevant experts in the UK.

we bought a tractor a while back off a dealer we have spent a considerable amount of money with: paid well over the odds for it as it was low hours and was sold with a warranty and all faults to be rectified. When delivered after 8 months in dealers. yard we managed 5 hours work before filters were b

here is the AI answer

I'm not a lawyer, but in the UK, consumer rights generally apply to goods purchased from businesses and not private sellers. Here's a general overview based on your questions:

1. **Consumer Rights Act 2015**: When you buy goods from a business, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides certain protections. The goods must be:
- **Of satisfactory quality**: This means the tractor should be free from minor defects, safe, and durable for a reasonable length of time.
- **Fit for a particular purpose**: If you've specified a particular need to the seller, the tractor should meet that need.
- **As described**: The tractor should match any description given by the seller.

2. **Right to Reject**: Under the Consumer Rights Act, you have a short-term right to reject goods that are unsatisfactory in terms of quality, fitness for purpose, or description. This period is typically up to 30 days from the purchase. If the tractor is found to be faulty within this period, you can return it and get a full refund.

3. **Private Sellers**: If you buy from a private seller, the tractor just has to be 'as described'. The legal principle here is 'caveat emptor' or 'buyer beware'. The onus is on you, the buyer, to check the goods before purchase. However, if the private seller misrepresents the tractor (e.g., not disclosing known faults), you might have some legal recourse.

4. **Sold As Seen**: Some dealers might sell machinery "sold as seen", which can mean that you're accepting the tractor with all its faults, whether you've seen them or not. However, dealers can't avoid their responsibilities under the Consumer Rights Act by using this term.

5. **Warranty**: Even if a tractor doesn't come with a manufacturer's warranty due to its age, some dealers might offer their own warranties or guarantees. It's worth asking about this and getting any agreement in writing.

6. **Advice**: Before making a purchase, especially for something as significant as a tractor, it might be wise to have the machinery inspected by a professional or someone knowledgeable. This can give you peace of mind about the purchase and highlight any potential issues.

7. **Machinery Dealers**: While I can provide general advice, it might be beneficial to get insights directly from machinery dealers in the UK or consult legal advice to understand your rights in depth.

Remember, the information provided here is general in nature, and if you have specific concerns or questions, it's always a good idea to consult with legal professionals or relevant experts in the UK.

here is the AI answer

I'm not a lawyer, but in the UK, consumer rights generally apply to goods purchased from businesses and not private sellers. Here's a general overview based on your questions:

1. **Consumer Rights Act 2015**: When you buy goods from a business, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides certain protections. The goods must be:
- **Of satisfactory quality**: This means the tractor should be free from minor defects, safe, and durable for a reasonable length of time.
- **Fit for a particular purpose**: If you've specified a particular need to the seller, the tractor should meet that need.
- **As described**: The tractor should match any description given by the seller.

2. **Right to Reject**: Under the Consumer Rights Act, you have a short-term right to reject goods that are unsatisfactory in terms of quality, fitness for purpose, or description. This period is typically up to 30 days from the purchase. If the tractor is found to be faulty within this period, you can return it and get a full refund.

3. **Private Sellers**: If you buy from a private seller, the tractor just has to be 'as described'. The legal principle here is 'caveat emptor' or 'buyer beware'. The onus is on you, the buyer, to check the goods before purchase. However, if the private seller misrepresents the tractor (e.g., not disclosing known faults), you might have some legal recourse.

4. **Sold As Seen**: Some dealers might sell machinery "sold as seen", which can mean that you're accepting the tractor with all its faults, whether you've seen them or not. However, dealers can't avoid their responsibilities under the Consumer Rights Act by using this term.

5. **Warranty**: Even if a tractor doesn't come with a manufacturer's warranty due to its age, some dealers might offer their own warranties or guarantees. It's worth asking about this and getting any agreement in writing.

6. **Advice**: Before making a purchase, especially for something as significant as a tractor, it might be wise to have the machinery inspected by a professional or someone knowledgeable. This can give you peace of mind about the purchase and highlight any potential issues.

7. **Machinery Dealers**: While I can provide general advice, it might be beneficial to get insights directly from machinery dealers in the UK or consult legal advice to understand your rights in depth.

Remember, the information provided here is general in nature, and if you have specific concerns or questions, it's always a good idea to consult with legal professionals or relevant experts in the UK.

we bought a tractor a while back from a dealership which we had spent a considerable amount of money with: paid well over the odds for the tractor because it was low hours and sold with a warranty and all faults identified were to be fixed.n delivery after spending 7 months in the dealers yard it managed 5 hours of work before all filters were blocked with filings
This was the start of things with the dealer not sorting things and having removed all the electric spools and isobus functions not fixing as agreed: this only a brief rundown which is still ongoing it leaves a bad taste and the said dealer has lost most of its customers in the area.

 

[MF CI]

The quintessential family dealership though was one of the worst.

sorry couldn’t resist.

There were at least two good ones in your area, sadly both gone now.

 

[Moors Lad]

Last year we went to a well known dealer and looked at a 4 year old JCB forklift. We pointed out a few issues and were assured it would go through the workshop and everything would be put right. The forklift was delivered with nothing attended to. On the first day of use it got half way round the steading and overheated.
When we contacted the dealer he said don't worry we will put it right. Having recieved the forklift with nothing previous having been attended to I had as much faith in the dealer as F**K All. He refused to take it back so I involved a lawyer who explained we had the right to return. Let's just say I would never cross that dealers doorstep again and have since spoken to a few who have had similar issues!

Are you talking a main dealer for a manufacturer or a "buy and sell " dealer ? It`s sometimes hard to tell on this forum just what`s meant by a "dealer".....

 

[Cowabunga]

There are some excellent dealers in the Carmarthenshire area that stand by their used machinery sales. Don’t expect them to call out for minor things like the horn not working or covering the alternator or starter motor packing up month after delivering a 10 year plus tractor, but do expect any major fault in that time to be rectified or your money back.
There is a dealer, non franchised, in that area that is not trustworthy, so be a bit careful. Most are fine and are very helpful. It can’t be helped that sometimes things go wrong. I remember once buying an immaculate tractor back that drove well… until it was worked all day so the oil got hot with the customer who subsequently bought it. It jumped out of gears when hot. When stripped down it had obviously been run short of oil and many critical parts had gone black after running red hot and dry at some point. There was so much damage that it was cheaper to get a factory reconditioned gearbox from the supplier complete with warranty than the parts alone would have cost. The job was done though and new gearbox fitted. Still running a decade and a half later as far as I know with a happy owner.

 

[britishblue]

Are you talking a main dealer for a manufacturer or a "buy and sell " dealer ? It`s sometimes hard to tell on this forum just what`s meant by a "dealer".....

He has main dealerships but was not a JCB main dealer

 

[Jim B]

here is the AI answer

I'm not a lawyer, but in the UK, consumer rights generally apply to goods purchased from businesses and not private sellers. Here's a general overview based on your questions:

1. **Consumer Rights Act 2015**: When you buy goods from a business, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides certain protections. The goods must be:
- **Of satisfactory quality**: This means the tractor should be free from minor defects, safe, and durable for a reasonable length of time.
- **Fit for a particular purpose**: If you've specified a particular need to the seller, the tractor should meet that need.
- **As described**: The tractor should match any description given by the seller.

2. **Right to Reject**: Under the Consumer Rights Act, you have a short-term right to reject goods that are unsatisfactory in terms of quality, fitness for purpose, or description. This period is typically up to 30 days from the purchase. If the tractor is found to be faulty within this period, you can return it and get a full refund.

3. **Private Sellers**: If you buy from a private seller, the tractor just has to be 'as described'. The legal principle here is 'caveat emptor' or 'buyer beware'. The onus is on you, the buyer, to check the goods before purchase. However, if the private seller misrepresents the tractor (e.g., not disclosing known faults), you might have some legal recourse.

4. **Sold As Seen**: Some dealers might sell machinery "sold as seen", which can mean that you're accepting the tractor with all its faults, whether you've seen them or not. However, dealers can't avoid their responsibilities under the Consumer Rights Act by using this term.

5. **Warranty**: Even if a tractor doesn't come with a manufacturer's warranty due to its age, some dealers might offer their own warranties or guarantees. It's worth asking about this and getting any agreement in writing.

6. **Advice**: Before making a purchase, especially for something as significant as a tractor, it might be wise to have the machinery inspected by a professional or someone knowledgeable. This can give you peace of mind about the purchase and highlight any potential issues.

7. **Machinery Dealers**: While I can provide general advice, it might be beneficial to get insights directly from machinery dealers in the UK or consult legal advice to understand your rights in depth.

Remember, the information provided here is general in nature, and if you have specific concerns or questions, it's always a good idea to consult with legal professionals or relevant experts in the UK.

A business buying from another business is not a consumer, so not covered by the Consumer Rights Act.

Most reputable dealers will self warrant used things for a short period of time, and there will be some come back. But certainly nothing in law, just goods must be as described.

 

[Forkdriver]

Quite frankly I would be very careful of buying in east Yorkshire.

 

[Alistair Nelson]

Quite frankly I would be very careful of buying in east Yorkshire.

Dont forget the North Yorkshire Branches