Scottish independence - voting question

[The Ruminant]

I don't want to hijack the other thread running, which is (broadly) about the benefits or otherwise of Scottish Independence, hence this new thread.

Has the question of who is eligible to vote been addressed satisfactorily?

Here are various different scenarios:

A Scottish-born family live and work in London but still have family in Scotland; they have English born children. They will probably, though not definitely, return to Scotland when they retire, probably to live in one of their parent's houses, once they've passed away. Will they be allowed to vote?

A Scottish couple who are tenant farmers in England; actively looking for a larger farm and would move anywhere in the UK. They have a small interest in some land in Scotland and their family still farms in Scotland. Will they be allowed to vote?

An English-born lawyer, very successful ex-partner of a large London law firm. Made his millions, retired and bought his dream property in Scotland next to a decent stretch of fly fishing water. Has sold all his property in England and he and his wife fully expect to see out their days in Scotland. Will he be allowed to vote?

English-born girl, but brought up in Scotland, now a nurse, doesn't own a home but has lived in rented property in and around Edinburgh since she was two years old. Will she be allowed to vote?

How will eligibility be decided? It can't be birth or that would exclude a significant number of people who view Scotland as their home. It can't be residency, as likewise. It can't be owning land and property in Scotland, as that excludes all tenants. Who is and is not eligible?

 

[The Ruminant]

Also, a separate but equally valid question is: Should it be just the Scots who vote?

Surely what is at issue is the breakup of the United Kingdom, therefore shouldn't all people in the United Kingdom be allowed to vote on its breakup or otherwise?

 

[Shetlandsheep]

My understanding is that it is residency in Scotland which is being used.

So non Scots living in Scotland will be able to vote, but Scots living elsewhere won't. The cut off date was just before they announced the decision so people can't fiddle it by moving back after the announcement.

I guess they are doing it on the basis that the people most affected by the decision of the referendum will be those who live and work in Scotland, but one can argue for the other options being just as fair too. But this one is easy to administer.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I think we should support you in anyway you think is right for your Country

Good luck to you all

 

[The Ruminant]

My understanding is that it is residency in Scotland which is being used.

So non Scots living in Scotland will be able to vote, but Scots living elsewhere won't. The cut off date was just before they announced the decision so people can't fiddle it by moving back after the announcement.

I guess they are doing it on the basis that the people most affected by the decision of the referendum will be those who live and work in Scotland, but one can argue for the other options being just as fair too. But this one is easy to administer.

And has no one kicked up a fuss? I'm surprised.

Also, what about the 'Break-up of the UK' vote. Does no one mind about this either?

 

[topground]

If you are on the Electoral roll you can vote, same as any other election, no other way of doing it.
So, if you want to vote, move to Scotland and register with the local authority for the area.
Can we expect a mass exodus of Scots back to the land of their forebears? Probably too much to hope for!

 

[Shetlandsheep]

Theres a lot of unhappy ex pat Scots I think,but those who are most keen to vote are pro independence, and they also dont want anything to derail the vote happening so suspect they will accept it.

I think the rest of the UK are mainly happy for Scotland to take its own decision as they see it as a net taker from the UK, and also don't want to be seen to be dictating to Scotland. That way, if there's a no vote in Scotland, that's really definitive for a generation. And if there's a yes vote, the rest of the UK will just sit back and watch and wait for Scotland to realise that it's ageing population and massive public sector do not make for a sustainable future, and being an EU drainer state will result in the EU, not the Scottish people, determining Scotland's future...

 

[Shetlandsheep]

If you are on the Electoral roll you can vote, same as any other election, no other way of doing it.
So, if you want to vote, move to Scotland and register with the local authority for the area.
Can we expect a mass exodus of Scots back to the land of their forebears? Probably too much to hope for!

They won't be able to. The announcement was made that it was on residency and the cut off date was a date prior to the announcement, precisely to prevent that happening. If you weren't already registered prior to the announcement, there's no vote.

 

[Jim75]

Seems most folk south of the border give more of a toss than we do. Nothing better to do? Personally its a nice idea but can't see it happening

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I personally give a toss

Having just watched the film Michael Collins I feel quite emotional about it, how factional the film was I don't know, time to read up on my history

 

[exmoor dave]

But isn't that the problem. History. To much is about hating the English devils for various parts of history and not enough is about what's best for Scotland or the UK. (Which might be independence)

How many hundreds of years have we been the UK/Great Britain?

We all know that a block of the yes vote will vote yes based on a hatred of the English. Much the same as the labour voters who vote labour cause they hate thatcher. It's crazy.

The history and emotion need to be set aside and the economics looked at with a rational head.

BTW as my name suggests. Yes I'm from the SW of England. So probably I shouldn't have a opinion. And ultimately it's for the people actually in Scotland to decide.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

I think the whole EU ought to vote, as it is possibly losing a piece of itself.

 

[hindmaist]

With regard to the original post,the Edinburgh agreement has been signed.It wasn't just scribbled down over a coffee on the back of an envelope.It was drawn up by experts with regard to international law.Self determination is at the very heart of the UN Charter.

 

[hindmaist]

Theres a lot of unhappy ex pat Scots I think,but those who are most keen to vote are pro independence, and they also dont want anything to derail the vote happening so suspect they will accept it.

I think the rest of the UK are mainly happy for Scotland to take its own decision as they see it as a net taker from the UK, and also don't want to be seen to be dictating to Scotland. That way, if there's a no vote in Scotland, that's really definitive for a generation. And if there's a yes vote, the rest of the UK will just sit back and watch and wait for Scotland to realise that it's ageing population and massive public sector do not make for a sustainable future, and being an EU drainer state will result in the EU, not the Scottish people, determining Scotland's future...

Scotland has a lower welfare spend than the UK,as a percentage of GDP.It runs a lower deficit than the UK and most other countries in Europe.As one would expect in such a well-resourced country.So why would an independent Scotland be a drain on the EU ?

 

[Walterp]

Scotland has a lower welfare spend than the UK,as a percentage of GDP.It runs a lower deficit than the UK and most other countries in Europe.As one would expect in such a well-resourced country.So why would an independent Scotland be a drain on the EU ?

Well, it made me laugh, anyway...

I'd guess that the rest of the Union is content for Scots to make up their own minds, which is absolutely fine. Good luck, and all that.

But for goodness' sake stop pretending that Scotland would not, in that event, be wholly dependent on (re)joining the EU to get by. It insults our intelligence.

 

[exmoor dave]

Scotland has a lower welfare spend than the UK,as a percentage of GDP.It runs a lower deficit than the UK and most other countries in Europe.As one would expect in such a well-resourced country.So why would an independent Scotland be a drain on the EU ?

Genuine question. What are all these resources?

Just the pro camp keep talking bout oil. But my understanding is that is a dwindling. Plus last time I checked Scotland didn't own the whole north sea. So what other resources other than a fraction of a dwindling oil supply are we talking about? Water? Renewables?
Don't mean it in funny way, genuinely interested!


Also Scotland (and Wales) seem to consistently vote in socialist governments- as far as I can tell socialists like to spend everyone's money then spend a lot more on top that needs to be borrowed and go on borrowing ever increasing amounts for ever more.
Do you think Scotland will go on like this or will it have to move away from socialism?

And do you think Scotland should take its share of national debt with it in the event of independence?

 

[Goweresque]

Scotland has a lower welfare spend than the UK,as a percentage of GDP.It runs a lower deficit than the UK and most other countries in Europe.As one would expect in such a well-resourced country.So why would an independent Scotland be a drain on the EU ?

Only in the socialist mind could 'running a lower deficit than your neighbours' be equated with 'not being a drain on resources'. If I have to borrow £20/week to get by, and my neighbour has to borrow £40, does that make me wealthy? Or does it put both of us in the poor house if we don't do something about our spending levels?

As for welfare, a bit more realistic view is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-23512334

Scotlands welfare bill is ever so slightly higher than the rUK, so not unmanageable by any means, but it would suffer from a faster ageing population in coming decades that would either mean considerably higher spending (and therefore higher taxes) or cuts in some benefits. And given the SNP have already promised to either increase benefits and/or reverse current cuts in the event of independence, benefit spending would rise from day 1 of independence.

As ever, socialists are good at spending other peoples money, in this case before they've even got their hands on it.

 

[Goweresque]

Genuine question. What are all these resources?

Just the pro camp keep talking bout oil. But my understanding is that is a dwindling. Plus last time I checked Scotland didn't own the whole north sea. So what other resources other than a fraction of a dwindling oil supply are we talking about? Water? Renewables?
Don't mean it in funny way, genuinely interested!


Also Scotland (and Wales) seem to consistently vote in socialist governments- as far as I can tell socialists like to spend everyone's money then spend a lot more on top that needs to be borrowed and go on borrowing ever increasing amounts for ever more.
Do you think Scotland will go on like this or will it have to move away from socialism?

And do you think Scotland should take its share of national debt with it in the event of independence?

Given they want to have their share of the oil on geographical grounds (fair enough really) perhaps they'd like to share the National Debt on geographical terms too? Scotland is 78000 square km, vs 244000 square km for the entire UK. Scotland is therefore geographically 32% of the UK, so its share of the currently £1377bn (and counting, it will be about £1500bn by 2014 I'd think) would be £440bn, or £83,000 for every man woman and child in Scotland. Lets assume Scotland can borrow all that at 2.5% interest (UK pays 2% on 10 year debt at the moment, but a smaller nation would pay a premium to UK rates). So the interest cost alone would be over £2000 per person.

 

[grumpy]

unbelievable even kids who have never paid tax or even lived can voteand there is only one reason king alex reckons they will have grown up watching braveheart so will vote yes,pathetic.http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/scotland-23087716

 

[grumpy]

and of course the teachers will be unbiased and not try to mould them to their way of thinking.
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/may/20/scotland-16-year-old-vote-independence