Scottish Sub Calving index 410 days

[Chae1]

Nothing here yet.

 

[Sharpy]

Nothing here yet.

Today is a Bank Holiday, not sure if Monday is too. I know standing orders don't leave on a bank holiday, neither do direct debits iirc. Probably the reason?

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

A nice lady who keeps a few top "quality " cows really serious- does DIY AI etc , told us how pleased she was with a huge bull calf that came out of the side door and how well the cow had perfectly healed and would breed again , they didnt even attempt to calve it she said - I asked what the aim was with these cows ,she said "to produce stock bulls to sell " I smiled sweetly and let it go .
But no wonder the industry has problems .

While not condoning a breeding policy that relies on C sections, that is an over simplification. A bull calf that has to come out of the side of it’s pedigree mother, could quite easily sire calves that are born quite easily to a more maternal type, less extreme cow and add value to the calves

 

[digger64]

While not condoning a breeding policy that relies on C sections, that is an over simplification. A bull calf that has to come out of the side of it’s pedigree mother, could quite easily sire calves that are born quite easily to a more maternal type, less extreme cow and add value to the calves

Maybe your concept of the relationship between value , costs , practical implications , time and working environment is very different to mine .
Been there done that got the T shirt and moved on but if it works for you fine .

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Maybe your concept of the relationship between value , costs , practical implications , time and working environment is very different to mine .
Been there done that got the T shirt and moved on but if it works for you fine .

It doesn’t cost me anymore to produce a good calf, or a poorer calf. They both eat the same, both need the same space, use the same straw and not having extreme continental cows, both have the same calving issues. An extra £200 for what’s sold goes straight on the bottom line

 

[AngusLad]

I sell a few bulls every year and would never sell a bull born from a C-section, or one that is over 40kg at birth. That's just part of my policy and I have guys that keep coming back for their easy calving and low input attributes.
Not for everyone obviously but I'm at a point now where I have very low intervention rates and I don't actually miss out on any potential bull sales in a normal year anyway

 

[Optimus]

Maybe your concept of the relationship between value , costs , practical implications , time and working environment is very different to mine .
Been there done that got the T shirt and moved on but if it works for you fine .

There'll of been an awfull lot of bulls thats come out the side door an kept for breeding.and no one would be any wiser.

 

[AftonShepherd]

I think I've posted on here before somewhere, but I remember many years ago hearing a pedigree bull seller saying that if you didn't need the to jack a bull calf it wasn't worth keeping to sell at a society sale.

 

[Stewartry hill]

I think I've posted on here before somewhere, but I remember many years ago hearing a pedigree bull seller saying that if you didn't need the to jack a bull calf it wasn't worth keeping to sell at a society sale.

A breeder told me that a a limmi sale in Carlilse did not but his bull

 

[unlacedgecko]

I think I've posted on here before somewhere, but I remember many years ago hearing a pedigree bull seller saying that if you didn't need the to jack a bull calf it wasn't worth keeping to sell at a society sale.

Everything wrong with UK sucklers in a single sentence.

 

[choochter]

wonder what proportion of commercial herds buy stock bulls out of pedigree sales versus buying privately or breeding their own?

 

[livestock 1]

Everything wrong with UK sucklers in a single sentence.

We had a Blue bull that I vividly remember

 

[Top Tip.]

We had a Blue bull that I vividly remember

The most memorable for me was actually a Welsh Black , for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Cowgirl]

Don't get cross @Cowgirl

It was a desire to have a low input, low vet med cost enterprise. My meaning being, I don't want to see any vet on the farm, rather than the sexist way you appear to have interpreted it.

The female vets at my local practice are excellent (as are the male vets). And when I require veterinary services I more than welcome their expertise. I aim not to require it though.

Ah interesting how you have back tracked on your sexist statement! If that is what you meant to say I understand- however there will always be accidents. Not everything is heritable - even proven inherited traits are not 100% heritable, there are lots of environmental factors in everything. It’s fine having your attitude to breeding when you have a limitless supply of replacements.
The problem with rare breeds is that before I cull a cow I have to know where her replacement is coming from, what lurks in her genetics and most importantly her health status. Sometimes better the devil you know than the one you don’t. Genetic diversity is so important that mostly I haven’t got the luxury of disposing of every cow that has a problem- it’s weighing up the pros and cons. Our cows are actually pretty productive in general- very long lived, most with good legs, feet and udders and in general calve without assistance. I’m not going to cull a cow if the calf has a leg back or twins get tangled up. Our main issue the last few years has been an excess of bull calves - one of our best cows has had 10 live calves, one heifer and nine bulls, all born close to 365 days calving interval, all born in the field without assistance. Last year she had a stillborn heifer. She went back to the bull and is in calf again - she may go this time as she has not many teeth left but I was not going to lose the chance of another heifer.

 

[Cowgirl]

Really can't understand all the negativity towards the new scheme. As I said before if you had seen some of the suggestions that were being flouted by government officials then I think we have got off lightly. The fact is we have retained the budget and barring exceptional circumstances most herds should be able to at least maintain their present payment with very little alteration to their system and crucially with no additional paperwork.
For those using AI, there is scope to inseminate a cow up to 80 days after calving and still have two cycles to a bull to remain within a 410 day CI.
We have both backend and spring calving groups here and I must admit I do let the odd first calver slip round 6 months to the next group if I feel there is a genuine reason. I will certainly have to reconsider that policy going forward but i would guess provided that number is less than 5% of the herd, we will be no worse off as I'm almost certain individual calf payments will be at least 5% higher. There will be very few of our cows calving within their own groups which will exceed 410 days.

You seem to know a lot about the decision making process- were you involved?

 

[ringi]

You seem to know a lot about the decision making process- were you involved?

Read the link that was posted in this thread and maybe look at the Irish version of the scheme.

(Not that I agree with them, as "CO2 equivalent" calculations per day a cow is on a farm is nearly totally worhtless due to it being so dependant on what the farm buys in and what over wintering system is used.)

 

[sheepwise]

You seem to know a lot about the decision making process- were you involved?

Marie Gougeon on speed dial!

 

[capfits]

There'll of been an awfull lot of bulls thats come out the side door an kept for breeding.and no one would be any wiser.

A good number are induced pre term births aswell....

 

[harperfarmer]

No pull no bull......

 

[choochter]

No pull no bull......

what does that mean?