Sustainable farming

[Jackov Altraids]

Sustainability is surely the thing on which the world needs to concentrate.
Measuring carbon etc. is surely all smoke and mirrors compared to showing that you live, work or produce in a manner that is [at least in the main] , infinitely repeatable.
It is clear that everybody has a view on what sustainable farming means.
And it is always shaped to fit their own ideologies or business.
Moronbiot wants factory produced gloop and an end to farming so will not countenance the idea of farming being sustainable.
Feed companies say we need to buy more and finish livestock faster.
Fertiliser companies say we need to use more fertiliser and use less land.
Genetic companies say we must use better breeding.
Defra now think that having some SFI options should qualify a farm as 'sustainable'.

In essence, we are being sold out, and then sold a cure.

So lets take charge of our destiny, what do you think would be a true and accurate metric of a farms sustainability?

 

[No wot]

Read some of the old farming books pre , ICI Nitram and chemical spray days , there's alot to relearn from the old sustainable way of farming that's been lost to 2 or 3 generations of farming families, obviously we still have to move forward too but there's plenty of old methods than can be integrated with modern farming to help make modern framing sustainable

 

[delilah]

So lets take charge of our destiny, what do you think would be a true and accurate metric of a farms sustainability?

Bank balance.

 

[wanton dwarf]

So lets take charge of our destiny, what do you think would be a true and accurate metric of a farms sustainability?

Recycling nutrients from human waste but we cannot do it & the likes of Monbiot don't care other than to weaponise pollution caused by a lack of recycling.

Same old story with old muppet monbiot, likes moaning about Farming to the exclusion of everything else, which is why Water Companies have got away with so much.

I just cannot take "Environmentalism" seriously, those that say they are - are not even trying.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Bank balance.

I completely agree that it is meaningless unless financially viable.
For the sake of this thread, I would like to know what any farmer thinks would it would be reasonable to measure to assess a farms sustainability.
At present, it is being decided by every vested interest who are using particular metrics which I believe suit them but have no real relevance.
So how do you measure the environmental sustainability of any business?
The criteria for farming should surely not be any different?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Read some of the old farming books pre , ICI Nitram and chemical spray days , there's alot to relearn from the old sustainable way of farming that's been lost to 2 or 3 generations of farming families, obviously we still have to move forward too but there's plenty of old methods than can be integrated with modern farming to help make modern framing sustainable

Thanks.
I should.
And I expect you are correct.
But this will only happen if/ when we are told the goals we should be trying to achieve rather than being told what we should do to tick a box.

 

[L P]

Arable would have to be a notable improvement in soils for me. I think we are near a grade improvement here, clay caps diminishing, OM up by 3% and turning over lovely dirt which never used to be there. Honestly... not seen a great yield improvement and maybe never will, but, for this 50 harvests left nonsense our soils have never been this good

 

[onesiedale]

Thanks.
I should.
And I expect you are correct.
But this will only happen if/ when we are told the goals we should be trying to achieve rather than being told what we should do to tick a box.

maybe the goals should be our own and not what we are told.
that way there is only one box to tick

 

[L P]

maybe the goals should be our own and not what we are told.
that way there is only one box to tick

Absolutely right, do what's right for you and your farm. I'm happy to join up to schemes if they work with my aims and reward me, but won't sign up to anything that potentially degrades it

 

[Jackov Altraids]

maybe the goals should be our own and not what we are told.
that way there is only one box to tick

As far as this thread is concerned, the goal is to farm environmentally sustainably.
Every farmer should be free to achieve that however they wish.
I just want some one to suggest how we measure how sustainable a farm is.

 

[L P]

As far as this thread is concerned, the goal is to farm environmentally sustainably.
Every farmer should be free to achieve that however they wish.
I just want some one to suggest how we measure how sustainable a farm is.

Passing on more than or equal to what you received must be a good outlook... either way you must have done well by the farm and proved it sustainable, and in this day its bound to involve environment whether you acknowledge it or not

 

[O'Reilly]

Probably something simple like soil organic matter, or earthworm numbers. If those numbers are falling, you're in trouble. Yes, there will be a plateau eventually, but I doubt many are there yet.

 

[Green oak]

the narrative is degrading or depleting.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Probably something simple like soil organic matter, or earthworm numbers. If those numbers are falling, you're in trouble. Yes, there will be a plateau eventually, but I doubt many are there yet.

Which on a mixed farm, would be maintaining an average across the farm, rather than individual fields?

Couldn't it be even simpler, based on inputs brought on to farm vs. output?
Something that doesn't get mentioned because everyone wants us to keep buying stuff?

 

[Tarw Coch]

Passing on more than or equal to what you received must be a good outlook... either way you must have done well by the farm and proved it sustainable, and in this day its bound to involve environment whether you acknowledge it or not

Nothing new in that, I remember hearing when i was young that it should be a farmers goal to leave a farm in better shape than when he got it.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Which on a mixed farm, would be maintaining an average across the farm, rather than individual fields?

Couldn't it be even simpler, based on inputs brought on to farm vs. output?
Something that doesn't get mentioned because everyone wants us to keep buying stuff?

It’s the inputs that make it unsustainable, fuel, electric, fertiliser, sprays eyc..
Dog and stick farming would be very sustainable but would come with a much reduced output, it might not provide a viable living for the farmer and reduced output certainly isn’t going to support the current population let alone a growing population .

So I’ve touched on 3 things there, sustainably for the land, sustainability for the farmers buisness and sustainability for the population, there has to be some compromise as you can’t have it all

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Nothing new in that, I remember hearing when i was young that it should be a farmers goal to leave a farm in better shape than when he got it.

" Live as if you will die tomorrow, but farm as if you will live for ever!!"

 

[Tarw Coch]

" Live as if you will die tomorrow, but farm as if you will live for ever!!"

Yes, that’s it, it’s not new, I suspect it’s been said by farmers for many generations

 

[topground]

As far as this thread is concerned, the goal is to farm environmentally sustainably.
Every farmer should be free to achieve that however they wish.
I just want some one to suggest how we measure how sustainable a farm is.

How should environmentally sustainably be defined?
I suspect Monidiot and the BBC would have a different interpretation than mine which would be using my land to produce beef while using the minimum of inputs other than lime when necessar, herbicides to spot treat thistles nettles and docks and deisel to run machinery. Nature then looks after itself although unfortunately I can do little about the top end predators that will cause an imbalance if uncontrolled.

 

[delilah]

I completely agree that it is meaningless unless financially viable.
For the sake of this thread, I would like to know what any farmer thinks would it would be reasonable to measure to assess a farms sustainability.
At present, it is being decided by every vested interest who are using particular metrics which I believe suit them but have no real relevance.
So how do you measure the environmental sustainability of any business?
The criteria for farming should surely not be any different?

OK.
'Ensuring the farm has environmentally sustainable outlets for the produce that leaves the farm gate'

There's too many people spending too much time fretting about the environmental impact of what they do on their farm, whilst ignoring what goes on beyond the farm gate. What is the point of producing - random example - a free range egg, if that egg is then sold into a system that involves it travelling over 1000 miles to get to the breakfast plate ?

You could say that it's not our problem, but it's ultimately self-interest. If the food system is seen to be environmentally unsustainable, then the pressure grows for a way of providing the population with nutrients that doesn't involve putting a seed in the ground or rearing an animal.