The old boys changing his will again.

[Boomerang]

I look after farm for him,its mostly rented out now plus all the unpaid hours for him over the years,usual story. .I use equipment for a fee per clock hour used.
Shes had use of 500m2 shed and yard foc for 10 plus years.
He has a will already prepared by commercial property lawyers, 3 or 4 years ago, think it's already in some sort of trust ,need to find a copy.
Couple of years ago she went to solicitors behind my back with him all arranged by her ,he told me the morning of his appointment, lawyer kicked her out tho and wouldn't discuss with her present.
Now she's tried again a different legal practice this time ,all arranged with no consultation, but 4 days notice this time .
A war is ,looming . Sad state of affairs . Families and ££££,
I'm definitely going to try to persuade him not to split fields, hes no fool sharp as a tack ,until his daughter whispers in his ear .

 

[serf]

Where theres a will , theres a war !

 

[Boomerang]

Last time we had a discussion she asked or rather demanded to know if he really wanted het to have half.
My response isnt allowed on here.

 

[it's not over]

Cork farm tragedy: Man murdered by his dad and brother before they shot themselves

A man fought for his life after being ambushed in his bedroom by his father and younger brother during a coordinated attack in Cork, gardai believe.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

This happened recently in ireland. Farms ,sons, wills.....what a mess. No farm is worth a ljfe

 

[ARW]

We will be arguing over who will be left with a huge debt!

 

[chipchap]

I am not an expert on this type of matter.
However I do know enough to know that a lot of the advice given above is plain wrong.
For heavens sake get some good advice from a lawyer and accountant who know their stuff. It may be expensive, but it is the cheapest way in the end.

 

[T7.wab]

I am not an expert on this type of matter.
However I do know enough to know that a lot of the advice given above is plain wrong.
For heavens sake get some good advice from a lawyer and accountant who know their stuff. It may be expensive, but it is the cheapest way in the end.

Or

 

[Netherfield]

Think very carefully before you agree to a trust. It's like a marriage, easy to get into and damned expensive to get out of.

When accountant was trying to persuade Dad to put farm into trust I pointed out that a house owned by a trust can never be classed as anyone's primary residence for cgt / iht purposes.
Accountant shut up after that as farm in question was 75% house, by value.

That's sometimes the case where people rely on the Solicitor/Accountant giving good advice, but many a time they don't.

Whem mum died she left all to dad in her will, they had mirror wills, whilst visting the solicitor I pointed out that it would put dad over the inheitance tax threshold again, which is what passing on assets beforehand was meant to achieve.
I pointed out it would be better if the assets were passed now from mum to whoever would inherit in dad's will would make more sense, for two years after death a deed of variation can be used if all parties agree, the solicitor should have known and spotted this but failed to mention it.

 

[rob1]

land values are going to rise - a lot imo

money is cheap

IHT changes will be irrelevant if your farther sells it you before his death - ask him to goft the remaining 20ac now as well as part if the deal to buy ? the 7 yr clock starts then which of iht changes will be useful

no brainer to buy asap really, especially if you can without borrowing unless you have anything better to do with 400k

The government needs to recover all the cash they have spent this year, there are already suggestions to remove APR and to increase CGT rates and remove reliefs, one suggestion is to get rid of the CGT rebasing on death, all those who have rolled over gains on development are in for a big shock if that happens add in 40% IHT if APR is removed and land prices will plummet not rise, while all of that might not happen its highly likely APR will be removed completely from farmhouses and very likely buildings especially if any on the farm have been used for anything other than AG.
Even if the tories dont do it you can bet your last pound labour will

 

[johnspeehs]

Oul boys must be all the same, mine spent his life bemoaning how his father did the dirt on him after promising him that he would leave the place to him if he came home to work it and then left it to his other two sons. He then did exactly the same thing to me , mind you he also did it to his wife, with the house they lived in (tried to leave it to my sister). As you find in most of these cases there was a greedy sibling manipulating in the back ground, he made 4 wills in 4 years guided by her.
So my advice is the same as most on here, get to a solicitor, get it properly sorted for once and for all, it will come back to bite you for sure if you don't.

 

[MattR]

Do people usually pay full market value when buying out siblings/relatives? (Talking about situations where the said relatives get on ok).

 

[Still Farming]

Half the time going to Solicitors throws up allsorts of questions rather than answers and what iff's , thrown it too.
Crystal ball we need, and a reliable one at that!
They say all you can do is ,what the position is at present ,and review again ?

 

[Farmer_Joe]

sounds odd to me,

just leave it as is, 50/50 nice and simple any change sounds like you just gonna stiff your self.

if you cant justify it is all under agri now you wont get APR,

we have just been through this you have to tread carefully,

as above with respect the idea proposed sounds terrible, tell him to just leave it as is, you will sort it out when hes gone,

then just sell the lot and go your separate ways, she will just lever it all against you trust me ive been there...

 

[farmerdan7618]

Whilst tax can amount to a lot of money on farms, my approach to succession planning with farming families is to treat tax as the secondary issue. The most important thing is the aims of the family, tax can be sorted once that is clear and sometimes paying the tax is the right thing, but by no means in all cases.

Something that can really help is to have a neutral person who is respected by all the members involved, and for each party to write their aims down independently before giving to this person. It helps to find how big the diversity is between everyone, and what is important to who. Only then can you really plan, and clarity of the plan can bring huge relief to those involved.

The situation in the OP cannot be a nice place to be, and is unfortunately not going to be solved without professional advice.

 

[Chasingmytail]

On the other hand I never see land as an asset unless its earning the repayments unless Im missing something? Getting a mortgage on say £400k is going to massive repayment if your not earning enough to have this monthly repayment debt depending on whether the bank will do interest only but then that depends on your age/means. If bank wants repayment then your talking an almighty mortgage that may finish you off. So I am perplexed how 40 acres is a good asset - for that money buy 2 rental starter homes and have a nice income. Personally I think you stuck as its too small a parcel to get a return. If your currently farming with your current acreage you may be financially better renting those 40 off your sister on long term agreement. If you dont farm the land then I cant see how you can justify the land purchase. The rent you may be receiving will be going straight on the debt. If you rely on the rent to cover your living income you'd need to do the sums on whether you will have enough income - assuming you rent those purchase 40 acres. Im not sure how the bank would see the risk, length of the loan and whether you have a family of your own to pass to.

 

[Smith31]

Money and greed turn people into the devil itself.

 

[kiwi pom]

I'd tell him to sell everything to the highest bidder and buy himself a nice little bungalow somewhere. See his time out there and spend his money on whatever he wants.
OP and sister get half each when he's gone.

 

[v8willy]

Will isn't worth a dam anyway, uncle left his farm to my dad, he had no kids & lived with his wife & unmarried sister, then another sister moved in when her husband passed, all 90 plus.
Then he died first, day after he was burried a solicitors letter landed, all started from the church who wanted all they could get ( very christain of them), ended up we bought the place at a lot less than it was worth but had to sell the house to fund it, point is it wasn't what he wanted.

 

[Westerbyway83]

Hi,

so sorry to read about your situation. I’ve read through all the replies but apologies if I repeat anything.

I’m a non-practicing solicitor and I have always practiced this area of law. I’m also married to a farmer.

Loads of issues have been raised here and some really valid points, firstly if your dad seeks more legal advice he should be looking for a solicitor who specialises in succession planning (they are out there).

My initial thoughts would be don’t buy your sister out. By doing that what guarantees you anything. Even if Dad changes his will to give everything to you sister could try and contest this. Even if unsuccessful it could be costly to the estate.

When it comes to trusts tread carefully. Avoid any trust that would be set up now, this would have IHT consequences and not just on set up but continuing.

A trust formed by a Will could be a more reasonable approach. This could allow you a life long right to the farm which ensuring who inherited after your death. This is called an Immediate post death interest trust and the IHT is treated as if you inherited outright. I do not know how this works with APR so good advice would need to be sought.

While we are on IHT someone raised that it is up for review and they are correct. IHT has been under review for a few years and the farmers weekly published an article about the risk to APR. Following the first report from the office of tax simplification I took the view it was not at risk.Given COVID who knows - but I do think IHT will be changed to help claw money back.

On APR as it is do not fall int the trap that you’ll simply get 100% relief, there are a lot of rules especially when it comes to farmhouses.

Finally I agree with everyone who says get LPAs in place now, these are such vital documents!

I hope that helps.

 

[towbar]

I would be wary of a Life long right to use especially if relationship strained already. The people waiting to take over could become impatient! I think the assumed entitlement to inheritance especially in farming is so damaging to all parties as often people sacrifice too much on the promise of inheritance and on the other side owners live out their years cash poor.