Who's bottled it ?

[Adeptandy]

[QUOTE="Grass And Grain

So is there some sort of correlation between how many years you've been DD'ing and degree of waterlogging?
[/QUOTE]
I think that’s the biggest factor, year 4 here and 2 of those have been winters with intense rainfall. The land was coping well until we had a decent frost followed by rain, that was the tipping point here. The other issue I’m finding with DD is slugs.
The land travels a lot better and BG levels have reduced, which was one of the drivers to try it, that and reduced workload. The environmental benefits have been a bonus and a detriment, the increase in wildlife has also brought more Corvids and deer.

 

[Two Tone]

Fair play each to their own.
must be paying some low wages if you dont want to buy a DD drill that can be mostly funded by a grant!

Adam im paying fair money ...a good man is worth his money and Norman is certainly a good man ..
The augers from the bin to the feeders in the parlour gave trouble last week .
Norman and junior dismantled and welded the bowl where it had broke .
The zero grazer also got a new shaft and bearings .
The man saved me a lot more than his wages that week .
Unfortunately a new drill wont fix other stuff feed calves , relief milk etc ...
And it certainly wont regale me with tales of fast women and slow horses ..
Farming can be a lonely proffession ...
Ah maybe when the well comes up again we might get a weaving to see what all the fuss is about but unless it can do all of the above it wont add much to the bottom line !!

Does @Cowcorn have grants available to help purchase a Direct Drill in Ireland?

Oooh…isn’t that a bit below the belt @ajd132 to openly accuse somebody of paying low wages on here?

 

[Cowcorn]

Does @Cowcorn have grants available to help purchase a Direct Drill in Ireland?

Oooh…isn’t that a bit below the belt @ajd132 to openly accuse somebody of paying low wages on here?

We do indeed 40 % or 60 % for a young farmer {

 

[Two Tone]

How many who DD had no black grass?

What's the normal yields on various places I would think also makes a big difference as all the data I seen says expect a yield drop at first.
If your on marginal land then you can not really afford that drop.

My experience showed no drop in yields in the first 1-2 years of DD. Straw yields go down, but grain yields are the same.
It dips in year 3, but would normally start to recover from then on……..unless we end up with growing years like this one!

I certainly have Blackgrass. Which exploded when I practiced Min-till as it got mixed through the soil profile.
It took 5 years of returning to the plough to get it back under manageable control.
It was only then that I dare attempt the start Zero-till Direct Drilling.
I chose a drill with the least amount of soil disturbance so as to try not the disturb the BG to wake it up.

However, this season has caused immense damage and we have a bad BG situation again for what IMO are the following reasons:

1. Drilling in damper conditions inevitable causes more soil disturbance and wakes the BG up.
2. DD’d crops have to struggle more to germinate before they can start to compete with BG.
3. Excessive rainfall will cause Pre-em damage by it ending up in the drill trench, damaging seed germination.
4. Such damage reduces the ability of the crop to compete against the BG. Especially on heavier soils.


I haven’t bottled DD yet, nor would I do so on the entire farm.
But if I do, the prime reason will be almost solely due to BG control.

Thant might be just once to press the reset button, to bury the BG seed to a depth below which it would be able to grow. Then providing soil conditions are suitable to do so, return to DD’ing.

 

[Two Tone]

Could you plough,power harrow and roll the worst land you hope to drill at harvest then round up before drilling (mid Oct) into the good seed bed that will absorb more water because it was worked dry

Yes, that is certainly an option, except for the Mid October drilling bit. That is how I used to do it before going DD.
However 2019 and 20 were typical situations here where if we left drilling that late, conditions became so wet and bad that the crop either could not be drilled or that it struggled to compete enough with the Blackgrass, without causing catastrophic results.

We have also found Hybrid Barley are useful part of our BG armoury. Except that this last Autumn suited Winter Barley DD planting far less so than wheat.

 

[fudge]

As a confirmed cultivationist I cannot see why anyone would give up on DD just because of one year. Less cultivation is being driven by cost, it’s the direction of travel, so why investment is cultivation systems? Here we won’t direct drill because heavy low lying silty clay is, in my opinion, fundamentally unsuited to the technique. Economically some land may not be able to withstand competition but that situation won’t be changed by jumping from one system to another.

 

[DrWazzock]

As a confirmed cultivationist I cannot see why anyone would give up on DD just because of one year. Less cultivation is being driven by cost, it’s the direction of travel, so why investment is cultivation systems? Here we won’t direct drill because heavy low lying silty clay is, in my opinion, fundamentally unsuited to the technique. Economically some land may not be able to withstand competition but that situation won’t be changed by jumping from one system to another.

Payments for DD are discriminatory against those of us with very heavy land. That very heavy land often grows the highest yields of wheat here if caught right, ploughed early, dry etc. So SFI is actually favouring wheat growing on the lighter less suitable land, for example on the sand here which is likely to yield 1.5 t per acre less in a normal year but is easy to direct drill continuously. It’s a joke really. SUSTAINABLE farming incentive, paying a sub to methodologies that aren’t economically sustainable, while leaving truly sustainable systems with no support at all. Anyway I’ll carry on doing “what’s right” regardless of SFI.

 

[Two Tone]

Payments for DD are discriminatory against those of us with very heavy land. That very heavy land often grows the highest yields of wheat here if caught right, ploughed early, dry etc. So SFI is actually favouring wheat growing on the lighter less suitable land, for example on the sand here which is likely to yield 1.5 t per acre less in a normal year but is easy to direct drill continuously. It’s a joke really. SUSTAINABLE farming incentive, paying a sub to methodologies that aren’t economically sustainable, while leaving truly sustainable systems with no support at all. Anyway I’ll carry on doing “what’s right” regardless of SFI.

These DD incentive payments are going to cause some very serious Feck-ups and this type of thread will be repeated over and over again.

Going DD is far from as simple as buying a Direct Drill.

In effect these incentive payments will probably end up causing an extreme backlash against DD’ing all together.


Unless you are prepared to accept the fact that there are going to be a lot of very frustrating cock-ups and that at there will be a steep learning curve, steer clear of it!

Worse still, after an initial “It’s easy and I don’t know what all the fuss is about”, you will hit the year 3 “OMG, what is going wrong?” situation, which you must be prepared for.

These payments will result in and it will end up as yet another farming ‘fashion craze’ that will in many cases end up on the farming ‘scrap heap’!

 

[goodevans]

that’s what I’m aiming on doing. But unlike the current combi it also gives me a min till drill and if the opportunity arises a direct drill. And as someone else is paying for 1/2 of it it seems sensible to buy a new one with all the boxes ticked.

Combi can stay as it the only power Harrow we got which may be useful and the drill part is worthless.

I know someone else thinking along those lines,to phrase @Two Tone ,it will be convenient to use it conventionally

 

[ajd132]

Does @Cowcorn have grants available to help purchase a Direct Drill in Ireland?

Oooh…isn’t that a bit below the belt @ajd132 to openly accuse somebody of paying low wages on here?

No, just pointing out a poor justification

 

[Case290]

That’s drilled dd seed and fert . don’t care to much for ploughing or solo / sumo trio been there done that. I like all the extra benefits of dd Crops are fine most the time.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Going DD is far from as simple as buying a Direct Drill.

How else are you supposed to start doing?

 

[Two Tone]

No, just pointing out a poor justification

The problem is we need to be careful Adam.
Because this so called SUSTAINABLE Farming Incentive might well cause the like of those of us who already do DD, to become loathed!
You have been doing it a long while and know what works and where it doesn’t, to the extent that you practice both DD and conventional techniques on various parts the the land you farm.

SFI could be described as the complete opposite of what its words claim it to be.

1. WTF is Sustainable about promoting a technique that cannot be repeated over and over again, when you hit the wall at year 3?

2. Doesn’t Farming implies growing food? SFI actively discourages the growing of food!

3. The ‘Incentive’ to encourage DD, that will inevitable cause unacceptable failures for many farmers will not only cause a huge debacle, but be catastrophic in many cases.


I sincerely wish that SFI left the encouragement of DD completely out of the entire equation, because it will be an unmitigated disaster for many, unless they have deep pockets, patients, are prepared to learn and really want to make it work.


The entire reason behind SFI is it is seen by Government as the easiest way for it to achieve its Net-Zero target.
And yet again we farmers will be the fall guys!

 

[ajd132]

The problem is we need to be careful Adam.
Because this so called SUSTAINABLE Farming Incentive might well cause the like of those of us who already do DD, to become loathed!
You have been doing it a long while and know what works and where it doesn’t, to the extent that you practice both DD and conventional techniques on various parts the the land you farm.

SFI could be described as the complete opposite of what its words claim it to be.

1. WTF is Sustainable about promoting a technique that cannot be repeated over and over again, when you hit the wall at year 3?

2. Doesn’t Farming implies growing food? SFI actively discourages the growing of food!

3. The ‘Incentive’ to encourage DD, that will inevitable cause unacceptable failures for many farmers will not only cause a huge debacle, but be catastrophic in many cases.


I sincerely wish that SFI left the encouragement of DD completely out of the entire equation, because it will be an unmitigated disaster for many, unless they have deep pockets, patients, are prepared to learn and really want to make it work.


The entire reason behind SFI is it is seen by Government as the easiest way for it to achieve its Net-Zero target.
And yet again we farmers will be the fall guys!

Best get lobbying then if you want it changed. I will just play what’s in front of us.

 

[Two Tone]

How else are you supposed to start doing?

For a start, go and look at as many farms on similar soil types as you farm in your own locality, that are already doing it, to see Which DD drill might be he most suitable for you. That might actually mean having 2 types of DD drill.

Without these ridiculous grants, I wouldn’t even buy a new DD drill!
Most DD’ers will start off with one type of drill, but after a very few years, switch to a different type.

And WTF is going to happen to the 2nd hand values of DD drills when these huge grants are available?


Without a shadow of a doubt, I‘d want to take advice from somebody such as Soil First Farming, now solely owned by @Warnesworth . And FFS listen to what they say because believe me, Everything you ever believed and what you thought you knew about it will almost certainly be wrong!

You will get beginner’s luck, followed by reality and a few disasters. But, if you persist, hopefully it will work in the end.

 

[Case290]

It’s just the words they choose clearly its not sustainable. The payment for direct drilling is one of the better options regards soil water air quality surely. None of these systems work if the drains and ditches arnt kept maintained that’s where sfi should also be focusing.

 

[Two Tone]

Best get lobbying then if you want it changed. I will just play what’s in front of us.

That’s fine Adam.

But I don’t want other TFF members blaming me when their inevitable disasters strike.
So I ain’t going to be lobbying in any direction other that telling others my ‘as it is’ situation and advising some caution.

 

[ajd132]

That’s fine Adam.

But I don’t want other TFF members blaming me when their inevitable disasters strike.
So I ain’t going to be lobbying in any direction other that telling others my ‘as it is’ situation and advising some caution.

 

[Renaultman]

That’s fine Adam.

But I don’t want other TFF members blaming me when their inevitable disasters strike.
So I ain’t going to be lobbying in any direction other that telling others my ‘as it is’ situation and advising some caution.

Do you think you (I) can be an opportunistic DDr using min till and even ploughing, if you believe it is required, or will you undo any good you have already done by reverting to cultivation.

My progression to Min till went one pass OSR establishment, I won't call it DD but some might, then min till back in to wheat, then plough combi often oats, another wheat then back into OSR
TBH it worked really well, but the desire to reduce costs, save time and hopefully improve soil has lead me to DD.
I don't like big heavy drills or any other equipment so opted for a 3m mounted Simtech, with which I am in my 2nd year (honeymoon period) I haven't direct drilled everything yet and working on a field by field basis.
I think the tines are possibly moving too much soil, but I have got wheat to grow in very difficult conditions, which I attribute to the T sem tines, I'm not sure whether discs would have been as successful

 

[Adeptandy]

From a financially painful experience.
I went from min til to a disc GD ( after a short term ownership of a Sulky Moore ) in hope I could skip the tine phase and the expense of another drill. Deep in my heart I really wanted to go strip til first, but at the time that would have been a considerable outlay as DD was even more niche then.
Hindsight, I should have gone with a tine, not necessarily strip til though.