Wood Chip drying in bulk

[farmernick]

Hello all,

I have several hundred tons of stores sitting empty and am looking to set up a supply chain for drying wood based products on a continual basis.

Does anyone know of a supplier local to Oxford who might be interested? I would ideally like artic loads of wet chip to come in and then a week or two later come back with some more, tip in the next bay and collect the dry.

Given the density of grain is roughly 3.5 times more than chip and we dry grain down to 13%, i don't envisage drying chip down to 25 - 30% to take very long. we have very good access to the M40 and have all the infrastructure required.

long term contracts preferable...

Nick

 

[The Son]

Eddie Stobart is moving a lot of chip locally (Herefordshire) onto poultry farms for their biomass boilers, and from what I hear he is in desperate need off your services because the chip is so wet it cannot be burned

 

[farmernick]

Hi,

Thanks for this, I don't suppose you can get any details? I have already started discussions with them, offering 3 article loads min a week but so far they are not being fair.

I gather they are selling for around the £100/ t mark and can get it chipped off the forestry track at around £9/ t. I know haulage kills it a bit but £89/ ton leaves quite a margin for discussion!

 

[The Son]

I will try and find out more next week, but I am pretty sure that they are selling by the Kw of heat, so they assume that they can send any wet chip in and just take a reduction in the price, unfortunately both the boilers and the feed in systems do not like wet chip so it isn't happening.
I only know all this because Stobart had tipped two loads into a friend of mines chip store last week that were so bad that he just pushed them back onto the yard and rung them to come and collect because he was worried about the chip heating in the store and self combusting!

 

[farmernick]

This is the problem with chip, augers are fussy and no one likes a fire in the store!

As I see it they have two options, leave lots of cash tied up in wood in the round in a yard for a yr or so or force dry it. Just trying to get a fair deal from someone large enough to keep the supply chain going.

Thanks

Nick

 

[Northdowns Martin]

£9/t? You can just about get £4 off Stobbarts in kent

 

[d williams]

Hi,

Thanks for this, I don't suppose you can get any details? I have already started discussions with them, offering 3 article loads min a week but so far they are not being fair.

I gather they are selling for around the £100/ t mark and can get it chipped off the forestry track at around £9/ t. I know haulage kills it a bit but £89/ ton leaves quite a margin for discussion!

You've not allowed for moisture loss in your weights get paid for what you've done before chip leaves store order numbers contracts a must get someone who knows this business involved as it could be the devil in disguise your working with

 

[farmernick]

Martin, I think there are regional fluctuations, have had all sorts of quotes in!

D Williams, I quite agree, hence why I ideally want to deal with one guy who sources timber (all though I have several offers incoming on direct supply) then sells it on to the end user using me as a stood over! That way paper work and trust will be easier as well as quality control.

Taking chip from 50 to 30% will obviously reduce volume so if the supply also takes it away we can have an agreement in advance.

I am also looking for supplies of grade A timber all though had a healthy offer for this all ready.

Thanks all

N

 

[d williams]

Martin, I think there are regional fluctuations, have had all sorts of quotes in!

D Williams, I quite agree, hence why I ideally want to deal with one guy who sources timber (all though I have several offers incoming on direct supply) then sells it on to the end user using me as a stood over! That way paper work and trust will be easier as well as quality control.

Taking chip from 50 to 30% will obviously reduce volume so if the supply also takes it away we can have an agreement in advance.

I am also looking for supplies of grade A timber all though had a healthy offer for this all ready.

Thanks all

N

Your volume won't reduce by much but m/c will I think they'd prefer 20/25%
What do you mean by grade a timber
Work on fresh cut timber being 60%
Can you use Rhi heat to dry
The money in wood chip is selling the right spec/ mc the customer wants

 

[d williams]

I will try and find out more next week, but I am pretty sure that they are selling by the Kw of heat, so they assume that they can send any wet chip in and just take a reduction in the price, unfortunately both the boilers and the feed in systems do not like wet chip so it isn't happening.
I only know all this because Stobart had tipped two loads into a friend of mines chip store last week that were so bad that he just pushed them back onto the yard and rung them to come and collect because he was worried about the chip heating in the store and self combusting!

Have they looked at pellets?
Needs to be the right boiler to burn green chip

 

[farmernick]

Confident I can dry to 15% if it's not raining out!

I have been burning bales but there isn't the kwh's for what I want with this side of it. I can legally burn grade a recycled shredded timber as a heat source. Will try chip but my system isn't ideal for it. I have had several site visits to other set ups and what they burn is much more dubious, IMHO the EA and OFGEM will catchup with them eventually.

Fully appreciate the quality is key which is why I want the delivery and collection driver to be the same, then it is more in their interest to get it right, all we need then is a system. As I have all the infrastructure in place it makes good sense to try this with a view to establishing long term consistency.

Have you experience in log drying? That is a plan B but not sure it's such a good core plan, am looking at container drying systems but start up costs exist which I am keen to avoid when we have the rest of the infrastructure in situ.

I hear others dry in in the round but think the ventilated ton bags may work better, haulage kills this even worse though!

Any other ideas?! Ruled out poly tunnels as not RHI compatible and green house look costly, all though looking to rent a few acres of south facing land with cheap energy supplies.....!

 

[quattro]

Hello all,

I have several hundred tons of stores sitting empty and am looking to set up a supply chain for drying wood based products on a continual basis.

Does anyone know of a supplier local to Oxford who might be interested? I would ideally like artic loads of wet chip to come in and then a week or two later come back with some more, tip in the next bay and collect the dry.

Given the density of grain is roughly 3.5 times more than chip and we dry grain down to 13%, i don't envisage drying chip down to 25 - 30% to take very long. we have very good access to the M40 and have all the infrastructure required.

long term contracts preferable...

Nick

What are you using for drying wood chip?

 

[farmernick]

Do you mean the fuel or the system?

Planning on using grade A recycled shredded wood as required. Using linseed bales at the moment but not going to be enough kWh in them if running fans to full potential.

System is new wooden grain drying floors with two large capacity fans linked to a 200+ kw heat exchange unit.

Have you any experience with this?

N

 

[Andy26]

Confident I can dry to 15% if it's not raining out!

I have been burning bales but there isn't the kwh's for what I want with this side of it. I can legally burn grade a recycled shredded timber as a heat source. Will try chip but my system isn't ideal for it. I have had several site visits to other set ups and what they burn is much more dubious, IMHO the EA and OFGEM will catchup with them eventually.

Fully appreciate the quality is key which is why I want the delivery and collection driver to be the same, then it is more in their interest to get it right, all we need then is a system. As I have all the infrastructure in place it makes good sense to try this with a view to establishing long term consistency.

Have you experience in log drying? That is a plan B but not sure it's such a good core plan, am looking at container drying systems but start up costs exist which I am keen to avoid when we have the rest of the infrastructure in situ.

I hear others dry in in the round but think the ventilated ton bags may work better, haulage kills this even worse though!

Any other ideas?! Ruled out poly tunnels as not RHI compatible and green house look costly, all though looking to rent a few acres of south facing land with cheap energy supplies.....!

There's a company offering free kiln drying containers for logs. I'll find a link....

 

[Andy26]

http://www.logpro.co.uk

 

[Andy26]

@farmernick Peter Lord Forestry deal with a lot of wood chip, I think he has several hangers full of the stuff.

I think the FC have done a a few trials on drying Wood chip, IIRC it was best left to nature as the economics didn't stack up for forced ventilation. Remember drying wood is very different to grain. Grain easily absorbs moisture and vice versa, wood absorbs slower and consequently releases it slower.

 

[farmernick]

Thanks Andy.

I have seen this concept before along with hook bins, keen to use what I have first before looking at additional options.

Had lots of interest so just working out what's going to work out best for both parties.

 

[farmernick]

Thanks Andy.

I have seen this concept before along with hook bins, keen to use what I have first before looking at additional options.

Had lots of interest so just working out what's going to work out best for both parties.

@farmernick Peter Lord Forestry deal with a lot of wood chip, I think he has several hangers full of the stuff.

I think the FC have done a a few trials on drying Wood chip, IIRC it was best left to nature as the economics didn't stack up for forced ventilation. Remember drying wood is very different to grain. Grain easily absorbs moisture and vice versa, wood absorbs slower and consequently releases it slower.

@farmernick Peter Lord Forestry deal with a lot of wood chip, I think he has several hangers full of the stuff.

I think the FC have done a a few trials on drying Wood chip, IIRC it was best left to nature as the economics didn't stack up for forced ventilation. Remember drying wood is very different to grain. Grain easily absorbs moisture and vice versa, wood absorbs slower and consequently releases it slower.

Again, thanks for this. I am talking with them also.

I am just trying to reduce the time stock is in yards / buildings taking up space and costing rent.

 

[quattro]

Do you mean the fuel or the system?

Planning on using grade A recycled shredded wood as required. Using linseed bales at the moment but not going to be enough kWh in them if running fans to full potential.

System is new wooden grain drying floors with two large capacity fans linked to a 200+ kw heat exchange unit.

Have you any experience with this?

N

Know someone using a large tray/batch dryer using stirrers and using wood chip boiler to dry grain and then dry wood chip rest of time

 

[farmernick]

I would be very interested to speak to them, could you make enquires please?

Thanks