Assisted dying bill in Scottish Parliament

[czechmate]

Interesting

 

[L P]

Sturgeon voting for a trial run? Or is that a bit harsh? Perhaps just bugger off in the free carawagon. On a more sensible point a lot of terminally ill would be very relieved to have the option.

 

[Danllan]

Ha! It's from the ridiculous to the sublime... after its manifestly absurd 'hate' legislation, the SNP comes up with something entirely of merit, wholly necessary, altruistic, rational and humane.

If this is properly drafted - because an awful lot of legislation isn't - and it succeeds in becoming statute, it will be by far the best thing the SNP have done, and probably ever will do. If successful, it may even force the hand of HMG to do the same.

Truly, loathe the SNP though do, I wish them well with it.

 

[capfits]

Ha! It's from the ridiculous to the sublime... after its manifestly absurd 'hate' legislation, the SNP comes up with something entirely of merit, wholly necessary, altruistic, rational and humane.

If this is properly drafted - because an awful lot of legislation isn't - and it succeeds in becoming statute, it will be by far the best thing the SNP have done, and probably ever will do. If successful, it may even force the hand of HMG to do the same.

Truly, loathe the SNP though do, I wish them well with it.

@Danllan care to tell us who is promoting said bill?
As ever we are all better served by accuracy

 

[Danllan]

@Danllan care to tell us who is promoting said bill?
As ever we are all better served by accuracy

Sure, it's a LD, yet SNP members are behind it - please explain how it can become law without the SNP backing it...

 

[capfits]

Sure, it's a LD, yet SNP members are behind it - please explain how it can become law without the SNP backing it...

@Danllan so why portray it as a SNP or even government sponsored bill when it clearly isn't.
Just more of your pish?

For those that actually have an interest please see below,
Where you can quite clearly see it is sponsored by Liam Macarthur, a Lib Dem MSP and like every other Bill it will be scrutinised.

Could assisted dying be coming to Scotland?

MSPs will get the chance to make Scotland the first part of the UK to let people legally end their lives.

www.bbc.co.uk

Probably go to free vote of MSPs in due course.

 

[Danllan]

@Danllan so why portray it as a SNP or even government sponsored bill when it clearly isn't.
Just more of your pish?

For those that actually have an interest please see below,
Where you can quite clearly see it is sponsored by Liam Macarthur, a Lib Dem MSP and like every other Bill it will be scrutinised.

Could assisted dying be coming to Scotland?

MSPs will get the chance to make Scotland the first part of the UK to let people legally end their lives.

www.bbc.co.uk

Probably go to free vote of MSPs in due course.

Because they could block it and that would be an end of it.

Shall we discuss your nauseating and endless lefty 'pish'... or is there insufficient time?

 

[capfits]

Because they could block it and that would be an end of it.

Shall we discuss your nauseating and endless lefty 'pish'... or is there insufficient time?

@Danllan yawn.
Frankly old chap I do not have the time to go over your biggoted racist drivel, but hey keep the dog whistling up if you wish.

 

[Danllan]

@Danllan yawn.
Frankly old chap I do not have the time to go over your biggoted racist drivel, but hey keep the dog whistling up if you wish.

Oh another lie, well we both know you will never offer anything to back up your lies because you can't, you just throw them around when you can't offer anything else...

Unless of course you are going to attempt to prove your claims, no that would mean dealing in facts and not your political fantasies, and lies...

You think I'm boring, fair enough; just think how boring it is dealing with liars and cowards lie you who continually lie and always run away when asked, politely, to prove their claims...

 

[czechmate]

Well, I am split really.
i am sure my dad would of chosen to go 6 months earlier.
Did he achieve anything in thise 6 months. No
Did he suffer. Not really
Did those 6 months cost much. No
Would I have wanted him to go 6 months sooner . No
Would there be more unanswered questions. Yes

They had a bit of a debate on the Contex last night where it was felt from Oregon that some were choosing death so as not to be a burden

 

[Lowland1]

Interesting

It’s Scotland it’ll be deep fried Mars bars and Irn Bru on the NHS. It’ll hurry a few on that’s all.

 

[ollie989898]

It's a very very important debate that needs to be had in all the regional parliaments and in London. I would be pretty pished if Scotland passes it and nothing else is done anywhere else. New Zealand, Canada and several other places allow this. Some places even allow people the option for voluntary euthanasia for cases which I believe they describe as involving long term or refractory conditions resulting extreme distress or poor quality of life. I knew of a case of a very young person opting for this because they had fought through years of depression that had proved impossible to alleviate.

The UK needs to have a pragmatic and reasonable debate about this because I believe the voting public would be strongly supportive of this, irrespective of what any ethics expert or the Archbishop of Canterbury had to say on it.

 

[czechmate]

It's a very very important debate that needs to be had in all the regional parliaments and in London. I would be pretty pished if Scotland passes it and nothing else is done anywhere else. New Zealand, Canada and several other places allow this. Some places even allow people the option for voluntary euthanasia for cases which I believe they describe as involving long term or refractory conditions resulting extreme distress or poor quality of life. I knew of a case of a very young person opting for this because they had fought through years of depression that had proved impossible to alleviate.

The UK needs to have a pragmatic and reasonable debate about this because I believe the voting public would be strongly supportive of this, irrespective of what any ethics expert or the Archbishop of Canterbury had to say on it.

switzerland since 1942 apparently.

Thinking about it, but I can’t remember the details, Terry Pratchet made a visit there when he was Ill and became very disturbed by it

 

[ollie989898]

switzerland since 1942 apparently.

Thinking about it, but I can’t remember the details, Terry Pratchet made a visit there when he was Ill and became very disturbed by it

I should think anyone would find the very prospect of it disturbing. I certainly would. But that is because we are not -in the main- accustomed to talking about or thinking about the prospect of death, or at least that is what I believe is true of British society. Other cultures have a very different take on all of it.

I am quite intimately familiar with some of the trials that one may encounter merely living and I find thinking about them or being confronted with them quite troubling.

There is no happy/good outcome in any of this I fear. It is making the best of a range of difficult options. That being said, I do think people should at least have an array of possible (legal) options available to them which in of itself, may be comforting to them.

 

[Martin Holden]

Well, I am split really.
i am sure my dad would of chosen to go 6 months earlier.
Did he achieve anything in thise 6 months. No
Did he suffer. Not really
Did those 6 months cost much. No
Would I have wanted him to go 6 months sooner . No
Would there be more unanswered questions. Yes

They had a bit of a debate on the Contex last night where it was felt from Oregon that some were choosing death so as not to be a burden

Yes it’s a vexed issue for sure. do we have the right to take our own lives or pa others do it for us? I see both sides of the argument but for those destined for.a dwfinate painful or uncomfortable end to life tou ca. understand it I guess.

 

[czechmate]

Yes it’s a vexed issue for sure. do we have the right to take our own lives or pa others do it for us? I see both sides of the argument but for those destined for.a dwfinate painful or uncomfortable end to life tou ca. understand it I guess.

My dad had been on morphine for a while. He was going rapidly downhill (August bank holiday weekend), the nurse who was looking after him wanted to make sure those of us who had been regular visitors were there next day (Sunday), she gave a dose and left us. My dad passed away, I went to find the nurse; she wasn’t the leas surprised.
i have never been in any doubt about what happened and that it was rather regular; it did strike me that they were taking a huge personal risk

 

[ollie989898]

My dad had been on morphine for a while. He was going rapidly downhill (August bank holiday weekend), the nurse who was looking after him wanted to make sure those of us who had been regular visitors were there next day (Sunday), she gave a dose and left us. My dad passed away, I went to find the nurse; she wasn’t the leas surprised.
i have never been in any doubt about what happened and that it was rather regular; it did strike me that they were taking a huge personal risk

Do you think the way everything happened was optimal? How could it have been improved? I don't think out of hours GPs are even allowed to carry morphine now; possibly a knee-jerk reaction to the actions of Harold Shipman. So the reaction is one that puts a blanket restriction on all GPs in the belief that someone with 10+ years of medical training might act dubiously. As a result, some of the care they can offer is curtailed and patients who would benefit from potent analgesia have to endure without it or wait for paramedics.

 

[czechmate]

Do you think the way everything happened was optimal? How could it have been improved? I don't think out of hours GPs are even allowed to carry morphine now; possibly a knee-jerk reaction to the actions of Harold Shipman. So the reaction is one that puts a blanket restriction on all GPs in the belief that someone with 10+ years of medical training might act dubiously. As a result, some of the care they can offer is curtailed and patients who would benefit from potent analgesia have to endure without it or wait for paramedics.

i Hope i wasn’t coming over as complaining at all, as it’s quite the opposite. I do think it was as optimal as the death of my dad could be … I am sure it was an assisted death, no complaint by me at all, it just strikes me as very risky if this is going on.
This was in, what you might term, a hospice, btw

 

[ollie989898]

i Hope i wasn’t coming over as complaining at all, as it’s quite the opposite. I do think it was as optimal as the death of my dad could be … I am sure it was an assisted death, no complaint by me at all, it just strikes me as very risky if this is going on

I didn't interpret it is a criticism as such. I was wondering -from someone who has experienced this- how should we go about this issue? I'm all in favour of what a person and their family want- be that what it may.

If only for reasons of balance, I will add that not everyone attaches importance to everything in the same way. Some people genuinely will feel they are unnecessary burden to others/their families and this very thing could well be what what distresses them the most. I'm not saying that is right or wrong or they should be made to feel that way, but rather some people may feel like this because they attach great importance to that feeling. I have lost count of the number of people who apologise profusely because they require aid or they dislike the idea that someone else has to do X or Y for them. Try as I might, I don't think I've yet come up with the explanation that best allays this feeling- people sign up for healthcare knowing they will have to do this kind of stuff.

Of course being in that position erodes personal dignity to some degree and I can't think I would be able to accept it any better or worse than anyone else.

 

[czechmate]

I didn't interpret it is a criticism as such. I was wondering -from someone who has experienced this- how should we go about this issue? I'm all in favour of what a person and their family want- be that what it may.

If only for reasons of balance, I will add that not everyone attaches importance to everything in the same way. Some people genuinely will feel they are unnecessary burden to others/their families and this very thing could well be what what distresses them the most. I'm not saying that is right or wrong or they should be made to feel that way, but rather some people may feel like this because they attach great importance to that feeling. I have lost count of the number of people who apologise profusely because they require aid or they dislike the idea that someone else has to do X or Y for them. Try as I might, I don't think I've yet come up with the explanation that best allays this feeling- people sign up for healthcare knowing they will have to do this kind of stuff.

Of course being in that position erodes personal dignity to some degree and I can't think I would be able to accept it any better or worse than anyone else.

i started the thread, but really I have no opinion. I know I don’t want to spend a long time in pain and death itself doesn’t really bother me much - oh, I suppose I do have an opinion.
Funnily, what really worries me, the fact I just haven’t gotten this French language as I had hoped, is spending, possibly years, in an old folks home and not understanding anyone