Defra now looking at capping SFI

[Huno]

Im quite excited about farming in the next 5 years. But what I do at the end of that is going to be radically different from what I am doing now. Without a return to some kind of corn laws, or a public commitment (be that State subsidy or public paying) to accepting that we cannot produce commodity crops as cheap as we can import, then the future lies in off farm work for me.

There are lots of opportunities in leisure, tourism, carbon gubbins, BNG, and all that kind of thing. The outside employment sector is pretty buoyant also, and a lot of opportunities for flexible or home work.

I am with you but it takes massive out of box thinking,planning and financing compared to the Simplex SFI nonsense... The corn laws were repealed but still exist at a weird global level

 

[Huno]

Im quite excited about farming in the next 5 years. But what I do at the end of that is going to be radically different from what I am doing now. Without a return to some kind of corn laws, or a public commitment (be that State subsidy or public paying) to accepting that we cannot produce commodity crops as cheap as we can import, then the future lies in off farm work for me.

There are lots of opportunities in leisure, tourism, carbon gubbins, BNG, and all that kind of thing. The outside employment sector is pretty buoyant also, and a lot of opportunities for flexible or home work.

I am with you but it takes massive out of box thinking,planning and financing compared to the Simplex SFI nonsense

 

[teslacoils]

The financing is a big issue. Im simply not interested in looking at anything that doesnt instantly add value and income. These things with long lead times can forget it.

 

[warksfarmer]

800ac farmer put the lot in in december before the 25% cap and has already had an inspection booked in for August. He's just about to start planting the covers on land where winter crops failed.

 

[Clive]

What exactly do folks thinks is the cut off point where people should live by their own decisions rather than expect an automatic bailout?
A) paying an FBT rent of £200 per acre to grow cereals on grade three.
B) borrowing money to buy similar land at £10k an acre.
C) Expecting to provide a living for three generations off bought and paid for grade 3.
D) Going in to a share farming agreement and expecting two foreign holidays a year and a Range Rover

I’d say I’m in category C but feel my problems are a result of voluntary choices that I need to rectify rather than lack of government support. Yet everybody else I know in categories a, b and d seems to think that no matter how badly rhey feck up, the government should bridge the gap.
Nobody forces anybody to bid stupidly high rents, or stupidly high prices for land or enter hopelessly unviable farming agreements or sign less than cost of supply contracts yet when it happens these folk are seen as heroes worthy of support, feeding the nation etc when actually they are simply commercially incompetent. In fact nobody forces anybody to be a farmer.
That’s what’s wrong with farming in my view and grants and subsidies only perpetuate a flabby and inefficient over capitalised industry built on expectation rather than sound business sense.
Being particularly blunt about it, subsidies for farming fund lifestyle choices rather than efficient business decisions.
That’s the cold hard truth of it.

A VERY good and honest post !

 

[Clive]

800ac farmer put the lot in in december before the 25% cap and has already had an inspection booked in for August. He's just about to start planting the covers on land where winter crops failed.

won't be a lot to inspect yet then really will there other than intent

Got most of our AHL1 in last week but its wet again now so the rest will be a fews days away at least now

 

[warksfarmer]

won't be a lot to inspect yet then really will there other than intent

Got most of our AHL1 in last week but its wet again now so the rest will be a fews days away at least now

Thats what he said to the person who rang him but they said its happening so they will look at whats been established at that point.

 

[Clive]

Thats what he said to the person who rang him but they said its happening so they will look at whats been established at that point.

we had an inspection in December, was very straight forward, not really an "inspection" just a few questions

I honestly don't think they are out to "catch" people out like old CSS inspectors were, time will tell however I guess

 

[Hindsight]

Thats what he said to the person who rang him but they said its happening so they will look at whats been established at that point.

Depending on the option your farmer has 12 months for establishment.

 

[warksfarmer]

Depending on the option your farmer has 12 months for establishment.

Yes and that was his point about the inspection as its to early basically.

 

[DrWazzock]

I’ve questioned this before but as I understand it you could start an agreement now including birdseed and you’d be OK leaving establishment until next spring. This would mean nearly a years worth of payments “up front” and also in the final year of the agreement the birdseed grown would be outside of the term of the three year agreement and so the delivered benefit wouldn’t be inspected. I can hardly see this kind of loose arrangement lasting long as it’s probably another DEFRA oversight. In defence of deferment of seed sowing until nearly 12 months after agreement start date, there will be a period of seedbed cleaning from post harvest this year until drilling the seed mix next year.

 

[warksfarmer]

in the final year of the agreement the birdseed grown would be outside of the term of the three year agreement and so the delivered benefit wouldn’t be inspected.

Yes but signed up to grow it for 3 years so even though that has not worked with the calendar as such they could still inspect as it should be in the ground. Not sure why anybody would leave it 12 months before planting it? You cant not plant it so you might as well do it straight away.

 

[ringi]

I’ve questioned this before but as I understand it you could start an agreement now including birdseed and you’d be OK leaving establishment until next spring. This would mean nearly a years worth of payments “up front” and also in the final year of the agreement the birdseed grown would be outside of the term of the three year agreement and so the delivered benefit wouldn’t be inspected. I can hardly see this kind of loose arrangement lasting long as it’s probably another DEFRA oversight. In defence of deferment of seed sowing until nearly 12 months after agreement start date, there will be a period of seedbed cleaning from post harvest this year until drilling the seed mix next year.

I tend to think the start of payments should not always be when the agreement starts

 

[Bury the Trash]

I tend to think the start of payments should not always be when the agreement starts

no true but they are in 4 quarterly instalments not one annual payment and the first instalment is paid 3 months after the start date so 3 payments actually would be had before the first year was ended iyswim.

 

[DrWazzock]

Yes but signed up to grow it for 3 years so even though that has not worked with the calendar as such they could still inspect as it should be in the ground. Not sure why anybody would leave it 12 months before planting it? You cant not plant it so you might as well do it straight away.

We have a variety of possible options including herbal leys which we could start/sow now but we won’t have land available for bird seed until September for drilling next spring. So rather than need multiple agreements we’d start one agreement at say end of May 24 but drill birdseed just before end of May 25 and still be within the rules.
You say it should be “in the ground” if they inspect but if they inspect in say October they’ll see our herbal leys but no birdseed. Yet we should still pass inspection as we have 12 months to start the option.
I can see this being revisited by DEFRA. I can’t see them tolerating what is essentially a years payments up front for no action then results of the last years sowing being outside of the contract period. Obviously hasn’t been thought through.

 

[Hampton]

How is following government policy taking the proverbial?

If the government financially encouraged businesses to reduce electricity usage in peak hours to balance the grid and help stop brownouts and some businesses decided to totally switch to working nights instead of days would they not be congratulated for playing their part?

The government chose the rules.

Applicants are just playing by the rules they have been given.

I agree, like I’ve said before, everyone from the govt to Alan Titchmarsh have said farmers have to do more for the environment.
The govt are now saying “hang on, stop doing too much for the environment!”
It’s mental. It’s also telling that the likes of Monbiot, those Goldsmith tossers and Packham have been silent on this cap.
Why would they not be persuading the Govt that there should be no cap on ahl1, Ahl2, Ipm2 and the rest? It’s literally exactly what they’ve been calling for?

 

[DrWazzock]

I agree, like I’ve said before, everyone from the govt to Alan Titchmarsh have said farmers have to do more for the environment.
The govt are now saying “hang on, stop doing too much for the environment!”
It’s mental. It’s also telling that the likes of Monbiot, those Goldsmith tossers and Packham have been silent on this cap.
Why would they not be persuading the Govt that there should be no cap on ahl1, Ahl2, Ipm2 and the rest? It’s literally exactly what they’ve been calling for?

It would have made more sense to allow smaller farms to go 100% environmental options taking land of production. What we have now on smaller farms possibly leaves an unviably small amount of both SFI and production for the overhead involved in many situations such as semi retirement, working off farm etc. Yet again it hasn’t really been thought through and I assert again that a case officer with executive powers working with each applicant as per CS would lead to better outcomes for all concerned. Payments for NMP etc should never have been countenanced. They are a red herring.

 

[ringi]

We have a variety of possible options including herbal leys which we could start/sow now but we won’t have land available for bird seed until September for drilling next spring. So rather than need multiple agreements we’d start one agreement at say end of May 24 but drill birdseed just before end of May 25 and still be within the rules.
You say it should be “in the ground” if they inspect but if they inspect in say October they’ll see our herbal leys but no birdseed. Yet we should still pass inspection as we have 12 months to start the option.
I can see this being revisited by DEFRA. I can’t see them tolerating what is essentially a years payments up front for no action then results of the last years sowing being outside of the contract period. Obviously hasn’t been thought through.

Being able to enter the agreement now for starting work/commitment in September is sensible as it allows plannning and you know you will not be effected by any rule changes. I see the issue being timing of payments and the contact not automatically being extended until the 3 years of outcomes have been delivered.

Will you put some cover crop in September so the ground is doing something before you can drill the bird seed next spring?

 

[DrWazzock]

Being able to enter the agreement now for starting work/commitment in September is sensible as it allows plannning and you know you will not be effected by any rule changes. I see the issue being timing of payments and the contact not automatically being extended until the 3 years of outcomes have been delivered.

Will you put some cover crop in September so the ground is doing something before you can drill the bird seed next spring?

Yes I’ll put a cover in if that’s allowed. Will it also qualify for DD and no insecticide? Quite a stack. I’ve misgivings about rodents etc but might do 5 ha of poor land.

 

[DrWazzock]

Is autumn subsoiling allowed before spring “direct” drilling?