Liquid back to granular fertiliser?

[snarling bee]

We have done exclusively liquid and exclusively solid. We now do a some of each. There are pros and cons to both. Scorch however has been bad this year. Sprayer travels better than tractor and spinner so we are favouring liquid NS early and then solid AN (or Urea) for the rest of the season. One customer is entirely liquid though.
Sprayer very accurate with PWM, but todays spinners with section control are also extremely accurate. We do go around the outer 3 or 4 m of every field with liquid UAN to feed the crop accurately to the edge, we can then afford to adjust the headland setting on the spreader conservatively. We have a lot of field obstacles which would lean the decision to spinning on solid, but now with section control we try and line up the tramlines with the poles/trees as much as possible to ease the inconvenience.

 

[alomy75]

the accuracy of a gps controlled spreader is comparable to liquid if not better

What are you spraying with?? A Vigzol?! Come on now…

 

[Spud]

We're mostly granular with a bit of liquid. Biggest bonus apart from cost is we can be spraying and spreading on the same day if we want. This year has shown the benefit of a light tractor on big tyres with the spinner being able to go when & where the sprayer wouldn't

 

[Wigeon]

Is it just me that finds the comparative weather dependency of solid a royal pain when compared with liquid? Surely no fancy spreader can work adequately in the wind and rain?

 

[Spud]

Is it just me that finds the comparative weather dependency of solid a royal pain when compared with liquid? Surely no fancy spreader can work adequately in the wind and rain?

The only reason liquid people apply in the rain is because the sprayer is busy on chems when it's dry

 

[warksfarmer]

What was the liquid in March ‘23? Compare apples with apple

No idea I’m afraid. Anybody got current prices today for liquids and prilled?

 

[snarling bee]

the accuracy of a gps controlled spreader is comparable to liquid if not better

I would agree if it is properly tray tested and set up, and running on fairly smooth tramlines, on a calm day, UNLESS the sprayer is PWM or similar. The problem with liquid is that it is applied at 100%, 0% or 200% of intended rate on overlaps, unless individual nozzle RTK shutoff.
Turn compensation on spreaders might tip the balance though.

 

[snarling bee]

What are you spraying with?? A Vigzol?! Come on now…

Have you used an all bells and whistles spinner?

 

[alomy75]

Have you used an all bells and whistles spinner?

I haven’t. But the mere fact that your chucking an inconsistent particle 0-18m from a disk is all I need to know that it cannot possibly be more accurate than a boom sprayer dropping vertically down 50cm.

 

[snarling bee]

Well you are obviously right and I am wrong.

 

[yellow belly]

I haven’t. But the mere fact that your chucking an inconsistent particle 0-18m from a disk is all I need to know that it cannot possibly be more accurate than a boom sprayer dropping vertically down 50cm.

Liquid scorch can be a big issue especially on small delicate crops especially in windy conditions
overlaps are 200% which even 4 inches causes lodged crop a 10.5 m combine that has to take an extra foot of straw for a 6 inch laid strip costs a lot of output or higher straw losses

the extra wear and corrosion on a sprayer doubles cost in replacement terms

waiting for Fert deliveries is also a liquid issue

the latest spreaders have 32 section wind compensation
although wind has a lot less effect in reality than most would assume

 

[alomy75]

Liquid scorch can be a big issue especially on small delicate crops especially in windy conditions
overlaps are 200% which even 4 inches causes lodged crop a 10.5 m combine that has to take an extra foot of straw for a 6 inch laid strip costs a lot of output or higher straw losses

the extra wear and corrosion on a sprayer doubles cost in replacement terms

waiting for Fert deliveries is also a liquid issue

the latest spreaders have 32 section wind compensation
although wind has a lot less effect in reality than most would assume

If you’re quoting big combines and 32 section spreaders you ought to be quoting individual nozzle control sprayers which would have zero overlap across the whole field. I’ll give you the scorch comment, but I’m sorry I can’t even begin to agree that spreaders are more accurate than sprayers; which was the comment I raised a counter argument for. The rest has been covered elsewhere in the liquid vs granular debate which agreed is a bit more murky.

 

[yellow belly]

If you’re quoting big combines and 32 section spreaders you ought to be quoting individual nozzle control sprayers which would have zero overlap across the whole field. I’ll give you the scorch comment, but I’m sorry I can’t even begin to agree that spreaders are more accurate than sprayers; which was the comment I raised a counter argument for. The rest has been covered elsewhere in the liquid vs granular debate which agreed is a bit more murky.

The individual nozzle sprayers are much higher cost and reliability
a sprayer and operator having to work hard 7 days a week can also cast a lot more
Wet windy season having only one 1 machine can compromise timeing
half a jet overlap and cutting a foot more straw is a big output killer on any width combine
in linseed it can prevent combineing unless it is very dry and sunny
green grains and lost quality in cereals

 

[T Hectares]

Is it just me that finds the comparative weather dependency of solid a royal pain when compared with liquid? Surely no fancy spreader can work adequately in the wind and rain?

It is, but it’s the conveyor belt workload of putting everything through one machine, trying to leave gaps between spray and fert applications, that leads to the need to put on liquid in all conditions that alllow

Granted I had to be patient this spring and target low wind days where I could’ve applied liquid but then we had both sprayer and sprayer out on those days and timeliness wasn’t compromised, borderline wind days were used for Polysulphate rather than Urea

I used to find it quite a depressing job out on miserable days smearing about on tramlines applying Liquid so that the good days were free for spraying

 

[fudge]

Well I have been in and out of liquid twice over 30 years. Both times I stopped for the same reason, fertilizer price gouging by liquid suppliers. In volatile times liquid suppliers wouldn’t supply us when solid urea was very good value in comparison. Maybe it is because we are small scale but that was my experience. Both times the price difference upgraded the spreader in one year. I’m not doing it again! I’m not convinced spreading needs to be 100% accurate. If the application rate falls on a straight line part of a yield curve then all the N will be utilised anyway.

 

[Buggerallbandwidth]

I’m thinking of making the move back to spreading fertiliser instead of using liquid. Anybody done it and regretted it?
We can’t put on liquid P & K so have to use a contractor and as we are 36m spread pattern is hit and miss.
We’ve had scorch last year and this year with this year in particular being bad.
We’ve only done N1 and N2 this year because we couldn’t get on with the sprayer due to it being so wet where as I think a fert spinner on a small tractor on flotations would of gone 4 weeks earlier.
My liquid tank needs an internal sand down (it’s metal) and a repaint which is t cheap.
The sprayer is showing it’s age due to the liquid fert even though it’s washed off every day.
Liquid seems to be around 25% more expensive than granular and in particular urea.
We dropped area due to SFI so no longer need a bowser which means loading bags isn’t an issue as the yard is central.
I can pick up a decent used spinner for under £10,000 and retire the sprayer to just chems to make it last longer.
My only issue would be storing the bags of fert but 1 tonne bags would ease this and I don’t mind buying a big sheet for outdoor storage if needed.

Looks like you have already convinced yourself to change. If it fits your system then don't hesitate. It is horses for courses.

The best option, in my opinion, is to keep both, liquid and solid. Each has a place and a time where it is best utilised. Solid urea (with no urease inhibitors) for the Feb/March early dressing. Liquid for the main dressing, especially if a dry spring is looming, Foliar for the final 40 to 50 kg.

Scorch is overrated, and NIABTAG did a trial a few years back iirc, where they simulated 25% leaf scorch, and at the end of the day there was no significant difference in yield. Old hands at liquid do not worry about it, as it grows out in a week. Unless it is on leaf three or later - at this stage move to solid AN or foliar N.

Metal tanks are best kept full, then the iron does not oxidise so readily. Keep the oxygen away and it will rust less and last longer. Fibreglass tanks are a great alternative, and all of the major manufacturers offer these. A liquid system does free up storage space for valuable equipment, or for letting out for an alternative income stream.

Liquid is usually priced at the quality AN level £/kg. If you are having to pay a differential of 25% then you are not buying effectively. Liquid UAN is never as cheap as urea because it also contains ammonium nitrate.

Urea ammonium nitrate mixtures contain three different forms of N (nitrate N, ammoniacal N and ureic N), all available to the plant at varying rates, so prolonging the N supply to the crop. In a dry year liquid farms always show better looking crops as the ureic proportion of the UAN can be absorbed directly through the leaf. UAN and Sulphur are easily mixed as a liquid, and make plant N uptake more reliable and efficient, improving the NUE. Late applied urea to dry soils, even with a urease inhibitor, should not be considered good farming practice.

Whatever anyone claims on here, putting liquid N though a boom is far more accurate and precise, right up to the crop edge, and no further, and down to the last litre per ha.

I would never advise storing solid fertiliser outside, covered or otherwise. And if you have AN then there is a security concern to take in to account, and this should be locked away.

 

[Buggerallbandwidth]

No idea I’m afraid. Anybody got current prices today for liquids and prilled?

Fertiliser Price Tracker

Didn't a boat of urea get hit a week or two back and finally sink a couple of days back, I don't know where that was heading. According to the press it was carrying “ammonium phosphate sulphur”…

thefarmingforum.co.uk

 

[ajd132]

The individual nozzle sprayers are much higher cost and reliability
a sprayer and operator having to work hard 7 days a week can also cast a lot more
Wet windy season having only one 1 machine can compromise timeing
half a jet overlap and cutting a foot more straw is a big output killer on any width combine
in linseed it can prevent combineing unless it is very dry and sunny
green grains and lost quality in cereals

I am looking at PWM individual nozzles on a sprayer but the thought of putting liquid through those is worrying. lots of electronics going on.

 

[Nearly]

What happed to those super fertilizer spreaders with booms. Air powered I think.

All been bought to spread avadex or red clover.

 

[fudge]

I am looking at PWM individual nozzles on a sprayer but the thought of putting liquid through those is worrying. lots of electronics going on.

My experience won’t relate to the machines you are looking at but liquid does increase wear and tear on sprayers which have become very expensive and complex. My own experience is that it is possible to be very accurate with liquid and a very basic sprayer. Today’s ultra sophisticated agrochemical applicators are over kill for fert. Not least because dribble bars are not height dependent. For me PWM seems a step too far for combinable crops even on a medium/large scale. I suppose it is different for contractors, customers may demand it?