- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Our Journey
- Thread starter Samcowman
- Start date
I have a quandary. I have a field which was drilled for GS4 herbal ley mid September after brassicas. It is quite dirty with dead nettle and chickweed.
im stuck between grazing it next on daily or twice daily shifts to graze out these soft weeds and let the planted species go on and then possibly topping up the seeds after grazing.
Or do I just let it be and let everything grow out. Potentially leaving it very open and I know the damage chickweed can do to a ley if left unchecked.
Any input is appreciated.
@Sid any thoughts as I’m pretty sure you are organic and I really don’t want to spray.
im stuck between grazing it next on daily or twice daily shifts to graze out these soft weeds and let the planted species go on and then possibly topping up the seeds after grazing.
Or do I just let it be and let everything grow out. Potentially leaving it very open and I know the damage chickweed can do to a ley if left unchecked.
Any input is appreciated.
@Sid any thoughts as I’m pretty sure you are organic and I really don’t want to spray.
- Location
- somerset
graze it down, 2x day moves, and back fence it
the problem, not to good on herb recognition at seedling stage
plantain is coming on,
quick graze over, l reckon, but l don't know how sensitive other herb seedlings are.
the problem, not to good on herb recognition at seedling stage
plantain is coming on,
quick graze over, l reckon, but l don't know how sensitive other herb seedlings are.
- Location
- South Molton
I would have had some sheep in to clear weeds and make grass tiller.
Other option is grass harrows and over seeding.
Why do you think it's not had a great take?
Had sheep on another field that was ‘weedy’ because the planted species were pretty strong and this species was weaker. In hindsight sheep would have probably still done it some good.
this field is lower in fertility and soil conditions aren’t the best, lies wet at one end. Up one side is stoney as well which hasn’t helped. Most of the seeds are there but there is too much chickweed for comfort.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Let everything grow on, I know my eyes need readjustment but there is nothing there yet (to me) and that would mean you can't really use much density
Without much density, what I see likely is the grass being taken to the ground and the weeds, not so much? So that would help them considerably.
You really need to keep the question in mind "can I generate herd effect, or am I just parking them in a small field I made"
Manage for more of what you want, not to "hurt things"
you need more grass thereI knew you would say that.Let everything grow on, I know my eyes need readjustment but there is nothing there yet (to me) and that would mean you can't really use much density
Without much density, what I see likely is the grass being taken to the ground and the weeds, not so much? So that would help them considerably.
You really need to keep the question in mind "can I generate herd effect, or am I just parking them in a small field I made"
Manage for more of what you want, not to "hurt things"
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I wouldn't have . Let that sink in... I would have said to graze it soonI knew you would say that.
But in the meantime I have seen things that are inexplicable, albeit logical in hindsight! Now I see mowing as creating little wicking chimneys that lose our moisture,, and too-soon too-frequent grazings as definitely not worth getting out of bed for.
Great to see you getting on with it though Sam, keep asking and questioning and be happy with not knowing what to do sometimes. It beats the arse off of "knowing", that's how we turn into human doings
Jonny B88
Member
- Location
- ballykelly. NI
We have similar situations with a few fields of herbs and chickweed. I was just planning on letting the whole lot grow out and see what happens? Seed is expensive so i want to give them the best chance to express themselves. Hopefully they should choke out those soft plants.
Our fields were out of long term arable, ploughed for donkeys years cereal, cereal, cereal rotation so really diverse
. I’m putting that down to a reason why they could do with a large application of rest.- Location
- somerset
good idea, continuous arable, doesn't help soil recover structure.We have similar situations with a few fields of herbs and chickweed. I was just planning on letting the whole lot grow out and see what happens? Seed is expensive so i want to give them the best chance to express themselves. Hopefully they should choke out those soft plants.
Our fields were out of long term arable, ploughed for donkeys years cereal, cereal, cereal rotation so really diverse
is seed really expensive, for what it does for you ? I know we all moan about the cost of it, but as long as you get a good 'take' that lasts, its cheap.
What is expensive, is messing up a reseed, and getting a bad take. Soil sampling should show up any deficits, that will affect the ley.
One of the reasons l went 'off' prg leys, is in those dry years in a row, the prg just disappeared, in yr 1 or 2 of a 4/5 year ley. And we are quite particular about getting reseeds right, especially then, before we bought our own drill. That and just throwing up seed heads in the dry spells
spring calf rearing has started. Picked up 30 today after 30 last week all from the same farm. It’s nice to have the calf shed properly set up instead of bale pens. Just need the milk machine up and running now.
calving is ticking along steadily. It’s strange only having a few calving this year rather than the 30
spring rotation starts tomorrow or Monday depending on how long the bale of silage lasts for the heifers. The bottom half of this field would have last been grazed in September sometime by the neighbours sheep. It had a little bit of P and K blend to replace some of the nutrients removed by silage last year and not replaced.
calving is ticking along steadily. It’s strange only having a few calving this year rather than the 30
spring rotation starts tomorrow or Monday depending on how long the bale of silage lasts for the heifers. The bottom half of this field would have last been grazed in September sometime by the neighbours sheep. It had a little bit of P and K blend to replace some of the nutrients removed by silage last year and not replaced.
The heifers are settled into their spring grass. Had a few issues with the weather and lots of rain. They started on 0.2ha/ day which was fine for the first few days then it really started raining so I put them on 2 shifts a day for a couple of days to stop the mess. They are now back on daily shifts but I have increased the paddock size to 0.25ha/ day and had the feeling this morning when I shifted them that the fence was now bringing them forward rather than holding them back. The 0.2/day would be fine if I had the time to give them multiple shifts every day but at the moment I don’t so it’s fine.
I have a conundrum with another field. It’s out the back of the sheds and is filthy with docks. Turned some cattle out onto it today to electric fence train them for a few days before they go into a herbal ley (which is my project for the next couple of days to get the perimeter and central wire up in and a water line across). The docky field I could spray off after the cows and calves are finished in there in April and put a forage crop in in preparation for a autumn reseed which would probably be GS4 herbal ley or I could just go for a straight grass to grass reseed in the autumn or leave it as it is and ignore the field of docks. I can get a picture in the morning when checking the cattle there. My favoured one is option 1 with the forage crop. This will give me a couple of chances to get the docks killed off, give me a wedge of feed in august which can then help defer grass for the winter and I can choose species such as daikon with big roots to help open the soil up more and we will be under stocked this year so may not have the capacity in the future to reset this field like this.
I have a conundrum with another field. It’s out the back of the sheds and is filthy with docks. Turned some cattle out onto it today to electric fence train them for a few days before they go into a herbal ley (which is my project for the next couple of days to get the perimeter and central wire up in and a water line across). The docky field I could spray off after the cows and calves are finished in there in April and put a forage crop in in preparation for a autumn reseed which would probably be GS4 herbal ley or I could just go for a straight grass to grass reseed in the autumn or leave it as it is and ignore the field of docks. I can get a picture in the morning when checking the cattle there. My favoured one is option 1 with the forage crop. This will give me a couple of chances to get the docks killed off, give me a wedge of feed in august which can then help defer grass for the winter and I can choose species such as daikon with big roots to help open the soil up more and we will be under stocked this year so may not have the capacity in the future to reset this field like this.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Docks are a hard one. For me it's now hard to see how I ever considered them a problem, but that wasn't always the story!
I would say that if you want less docks then let the fields grow more grass before you graze them, another thing it's taken me a couple of years to really "see evidence of" as we could never really ever slow down enough with rotational grazing.
That "quality thing" tends to be really pervasive as an internal conversation, add in that it gets worse before it naturally gets better, I can see why people spray them. It takes something.
I would say that if you want less docks then let the fields grow more grass before you graze them, another thing it's taken me a couple of years to really "see evidence of" as we could never really ever slow down enough with rotational grazing.
That "quality thing" tends to be really pervasive as an internal conversation, add in that it gets worse before it naturally gets better, I can see why people spray them. It takes something.
The odd ones aren’t a problem because they can be grazed out like the heifers are and outcompeted by grass but where there’s a serious problem I can’t see the grass outgrowing them.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It's probably a classic insight into how "cascading and compounding effects" occur to us.
I think you can 'rest your way out' of them long before you'll 'graze your way out'
I think you can 'rest your way out' of them long before you'll 'graze your way out'
awkward
Member
- Location
- kerry ireland
With dock, we used a spike aerator a few times and could see a positive from that, but the leaf beetle does a great job, last year they were active very early in season which worked well for us
A couple of pictures of the field in question. What doesn’t show very well is the understory of seedling docks.
Found this whilst on the mammoth mission of pulling fencing wire out of hedges to get the fields stockproof. Pretty sure it’s an egg insulator so there will also be a loop of wire on the other end of it as well.
I don’t think we are going to have to buy many insulators the number I am reclaiming out of the hedgerows!!!
Found this whilst on the mammoth mission of pulling fencing wire out of hedges to get the fields stockproof. Pretty sure it’s an egg insulator so there will also be a loop of wire on the other end of it as well.
I don’t think we are going to have to buy many insulators the number I am reclaiming out of the hedgerows!!!
- Location
- somerset
l think one could justify a spray, on that field, to re-set the ley.
one of the distinct differences between regen and organic, you have a bigger tool box to use !
l am waiting for someone to market, the dock eating bugs/insects, that devour dock leaf's.
at least your insulator looks firmly embedded !
one of the distinct differences between regen and organic, you have a bigger tool box to use !
l am waiting for someone to market, the dock eating bugs/insects, that devour dock leaf's.
at least your insulator looks firmly embedded !
Not sure how much insulating it’s doing now!!
This farm is bad for docks. The other pp fields are less worse than this so I feel we need to do something.
It’s the trouble with human nature we feel we must always ‘do’ something.
Really we should be human ‘doings’ instead of human ‘beings’. Or we should make an effort towards being rather than doing
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
We don't often look at "being in the world" if we are distracted by doing!
And the things that need doing always seem more urgent..
And the things that need doing always seem more urgent..