Weaving GD user thread

[Two Tone]

Sensation WB drilled 16/9/23.

Thank goodness I didn’t try any other method of drilling it in a year like this!

 

[Two Tone]

Please help:

I’m in a muddle and don’t know what to do with regard GD’ing some land we have got.
I’m going to be asking @Warnesworth for his advice but would like to ask all GD users for theirs.
@Brisel, please also feel free to give your opinion too.
But I really need sound advice from long time established GD users please.

I’ve got 70 acres in 3 fields that is quite heavy land that was Winter Linseed last year. Some may have seen the trouble we had harvesting it. We ended up burning most of the straw and got a fantastic burn, which has encouraged 2 (so far) massive flushes of Blackgrass. Now Roundup’d for the 2nd time.

That sounds good except for the fact that the continued wet summer has caused deeper that I would like tramline ruts, some of which fill up with water after the continuous rain events we keep getting.

Worse still, we had to Combine some of the fields at 90 degrees to the way it is drilled and there are combine wheel ruts. Not deep, but they are there, nonetheless.

Because of the Blackgrass pressure, we want to grow Hybrid Winter barley, because we know it has a suppressant effect on BG, but only if we can get a good establishment.
It is far better to grow Hybrid winter Barley and get a yield than a crap, Blackgrass infested Wheat crop (on which Atlantis type products don’t do a good enough job for us) despite an extremely robust Pre-em spray policy.

If it dried up I’d continue with this plan. But it needs a week of dry weather and we all know that in years like this, it isn’t likely to happen.

Q’s:
1. Will it still GD or am I wasting my time trying to get a decent/profitable crop?
1(a). Use any other type of DD drill, including a Horsch or Claydon.
2. Am I better to press the reset button and plough it?
3. Move that intended expensive Bazooka Winter Barley seed to some lighter land that was intended to grow Winter Beans and in effect fallow that heavy land this year. Maybe even Low Disturbance Subsoil it when it dries up enough sometime before 2024’s Autumn.

I have to say that I am quite impressed with how well the GD can cope with tricky conditions. But there are limits!

All opinions gratefully received.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Tractor Tim]

Please help:

I’m in a muddle and don’t know what to do with regard GD’ing some land we have got.
I’m going to be asking @Warnesworth for his advice but would like to ask all GD users for theirs.
@Brisel, please also feel free to give your opinion too.
But I really need sound advice from long time established GD users please.

I’ve got 70 acres in 3 fields that is quite heavy land that was Winter Linseed last year. Some may have seen the trouble we had harvesting it. We ended up burning most of the straw and got a fantastic burn, which has encouraged 2 (so far) massive flushes of Blackgrass. Now Roundup’d for the 2nd time.

That sounds good except for the fact that the continued wet summer has caused deeper that I would like tramline ruts, some of which fill up with water after the continuous rain events we keep getting.
View attachment 1139606

Worse still, we had to Combine some of the fields at 90 degrees to the way it is drilled and there are combine wheel ruts. Not deep, but they are there, nonetheless.
View attachment 1139605

Because of the Blackgrass pressure, we want to grow Hybrid Winter barley, because we know it has a suppressant effect on BG, but only if we can get a good establishment.
It is far better to grow Hybrid winter Barley and get a yield than a crap, Blackgrass infested Wheat crop (on which Atlantis type products don’t do a good enough job for us) despite an extremely robust Pre-em spray policy.

If it dried up I’d continue with this plan. But it needs a week of dry weather and we all know that in years like this, it isn’t likely to happen.

Q’s:
1. Will it still GD or am I wasting my time trying to get a decent/profitable crop?
1(a). Use any other type of DD drill, including a Horsch or Claydon.
2. Am I better to press the reset button and plough it?
3. Move that intended expensive Bazooka Winter Barley seed to some lighter land that was intended to grow Winter Beans and in effect fallow that heavy land this year. Maybe even Low Disturbance Subsoil it when it dries up enough sometime before 2024’s Autumn.

I have to say that I am quite impressed with how well the GD can cope with tricky conditions. But there are limits!

All opinions gratefully received.
Thanks in advance.

We seem to struggle every year as soon as it comes wet. Soil sticking Inside the disks and poor emergenc barley especially then struggles all year. Sometimes you need to remove the compaction and lift the ground a bit to dry I end up then giving it a quick tickle with the powerharrow and sowing with the gd it's not the way I imagined it when I started out. At the end of the day you still have to grow a good and most importantly profitable crop. Only been using a gd for 4 years so still learning what works

 

[Brisel]

Please help:

I’m in a muddle and don’t know what to do with regard GD’ing some land we have got.
I’m going to be asking @Warnesworth for his advice but would like to ask all GD users for theirs.
@Brisel, please also feel free to give your opinion too.
But I really need sound advice from long time established GD users please.

I’ve got 70 acres in 3 fields that is quite heavy land that was Winter Linseed last year. Some may have seen the trouble we had harvesting it. We ended up burning most of the straw and got a fantastic burn, which has encouraged 2 (so far) massive flushes of Blackgrass. Now Roundup’d for the 2nd time.

That sounds good except for the fact that the continued wet summer has caused deeper that I would like tramline ruts, some of which fill up with water after the continuous rain events we keep getting.
View attachment 1139606

Worse still, we had to Combine some of the fields at 90 degrees to the way it is drilled and there are combine wheel ruts. Not deep, but they are there, nonetheless.
View attachment 1139605

Because of the Blackgrass pressure, we want to grow Hybrid Winter barley, because we know it has a suppressant effect on BG, but only if we can get a good establishment.
It is far better to grow Hybrid winter Barley and get a yield than a crap, Blackgrass infested Wheat crop (on which Atlantis type products don’t do a good enough job for us) despite an extremely robust Pre-em spray policy.

If it dried up I’d continue with this plan. But it needs a week of dry weather and we all know that in years like this, it isn’t likely to happen.

Q’s:
1. Will it still GD or am I wasting my time trying to get a decent/profitable crop?
1(a). Use any other type of DD drill, including a Horsch or Claydon.
2. Am I better to press the reset button and plough it?
3. Move that intended expensive Bazooka Winter Barley seed to some lighter land that was intended to grow Winter Beans and in effect fallow that heavy land this year. Maybe even Low Disturbance Subsoil it when it dries up enough sometime before 2024’s Autumn.

I have to say that I am quite impressed with how well the GD can cope with tricky conditions. But there are limits!

All opinions gratefully received.
Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the tag. I hardly feel worthy!

How bad are the ruts? If you can live with them for now, do so. What would you do to level it in future? A really good healthy earthworm population will do some of the work for you but will not move soil a few inches.

No one pass drill other than a power harrow combination is going to level those out. If they are bad enough to damage you & the equipment every time you travel the field, I'd hit the reset of a plough. It sounds as though you have a high level of blackgrass in the top anyway.

That's the view of someone keener to reach for steel and power to fix a problem than a no-till purist. I have seen old parkland repair itself after the carnage of a show in wet weather so it can heal itself, with a bit of help in the worst cut up areas.

Out of interest, do you normally have worm casts in your tramlines? I find that a measure of whether your beneficial biology will help fix damage, even if it's a bit of a crude measure.

 

[Two Tone]

Thanks for the tag. I hardly feel worthy!

How bad are the ruts? If you can live with them for now, do so. What would you do to level it in future? A really good healthy earthworm population will do some of the work for you but will not move soil a few inches.

No one pass drill other than a power harrow combination is going to level those out. If they are bad enough to damage you & the equipment every time you travel the field, I'd hit the reset of a plough. It sounds as though you have a high level of blackgrass in the top anyway.

That's the view of someone keener to reach for steel and power to fix a problem than a no-till purist. I have seen old parkland repair itself after the carnage of a show in wet weather so it can heal itself, with a bit of help in the worst cut up areas.

Out of interest, do you normally have worm casts in your tramlines? I find that a measure of whether your beneficial biology will help fix damage, even if it's a bit of a crude measure.

Thank you. Oh you are definitely worthy, I can assure you!

One thing we have certainly noticed is the massive increase in earthworms.
Actually, apart from where the tramlines are, there is a half reasonable tilth forming.
Yes, it is those ruts and the fact that they are wet with some puddles in them that might be over-influencing me.
Though they are remarkably firm in their bottoms and not getting significantly deeper the more I use them.
They were actually formed during the last year that I ploughed those fields in 2021.

Drilling at an angle to the tramlines does do some good at levelling them, by loosening the ridges either side of the rut. Then the wide wheels on the back of my Fastrac and sprayer have some sort of levelling action. Minor, but better than none.
I find that changing the angle each year can help. Plus you don’t have to worry about drill tramline sequencing.

 

[Two Tone]

We seem to struggle every year as soon as it comes wet. Soil sticking Inside the disks and poor emergenc barley especially then struggles all year. Sometimes you need to remove the compaction and lift the ground a bit to dry I end up then giving it a quick tickle with the powerharrow and sowing with the gd it's not the way I imagined it when I started out. At the end of the day you still have to grow a good and most importantly profitable crop. Only been using a gd for 4 years so still learning what works

Thank you.
Spot on! We’d all like to be religious about never using cultivation again, but we do need to make a crop pay.
I do have to say though, that some of the land (even heavy land) that I have been GDing for 4 times is settling down into much more manageable DD’d land.
It is the headlands that get turned on that are the trouble. The middle of the fields that are where the struggle is.

 

[Adeptandy]

Thank you.
Spot on! We’d all like to be religious about never using cultivation again, but we do need to make a crop pay.
I do have to say though, that some of the land (even heavy land) that I have been GDing for 4 times is settling down into much more manageable DD’d land.
It is the headlands that get turned on that are the trouble. The middle of the fields that are where the struggle is.

I’m far from experienced, but think I’ve made most cock ups possible so far with the GD.
I confess to being to evangelical and now I’ve started to repair the compaction I’m seeing improvements.
I’m putting the paraplow down all my tramlines this year as I made a mess of them last year. Headlands are also getting done due to combine traffic and because they’re bumpy. Going to risk the main part of the fields, but then only valet and chaser ( apart from the combine ) have been running in it, trailer stays in the road end headlands.
so that’s what I’d suggest 🫣

 

[Badshot]

It's tough in years like this.
It's easy to give advice when you're not the one that's got to take the hit if it doesn't work.

Personally, I'd get my KV tine seeder out if there's wheelings all over the place, but you don't have that option.
But that won't help the blackgrass situation.
I doubt the plough will either though.
Wet ground and disc DD aren't happy bedfellows, but the gd will work in conditions that you really ought not be out in.
I think my advice would be live with the tramlines for another year, up the seedrate to compensate the lower establishment that's sure to follow and keep everything crossed.

 

[Warnesworth]

Please help:

I’m in a muddle and don’t know what to do with regard GD’ing some land we have got.
I’m going to be asking @Warnesworth for his advice but would like to ask all GD users for theirs.
@Brisel, please also feel free to give your opinion too.
But I really need sound advice from long time established GD users please.

I’ve got 70 acres in 3 fields that is quite heavy land that was Winter Linseed last year. Some may have seen the trouble we had harvesting it. We ended up burning most of the straw and got a fantastic burn, which has encouraged 2 (so far) massive flushes of Blackgrass. Now Roundup’d for the 2nd time.

That sounds good except for the fact that the continued wet summer has caused deeper that I would like tramline ruts, some of which fill up with water after the continuous rain events we keep getting.
View attachment 1139606

Worse still, we had to Combine some of the fields at 90 degrees to the way it is drilled and there are combine wheel ruts. Not deep, but they are there, nonetheless.
View attachment 1139605

Because of the Blackgrass pressure, we want to grow Hybrid Winter barley, because we know it has a suppressant effect on BG, but only if we can get a good establishment.
It is far better to grow Hybrid winter Barley and get a yield than a crap, Blackgrass infested Wheat crop (on which Atlantis type products don’t do a good enough job for us) despite an extremely robust Pre-em spray policy.

If it dried up I’d continue with this plan. But it needs a week of dry weather and we all know that in years like this, it isn’t likely to happen.

Q’s:
1. Will it still GD or am I wasting my time trying to get a decent/profitable crop?
1(a). Use any other type of DD drill, including a Horsch or Claydon.
2. Am I better to press the reset button and plough it?
3. Move that intended expensive Bazooka Winter Barley seed to some lighter land that was intended to grow Winter Beans and in effect fallow that heavy land this year. Maybe even Low Disturbance Subsoil it when it dries up enough sometime before 2024’s Autumn.

I have to say that I am quite impressed with how well the GD can cope with tricky conditions. But there are limits!

All opinions gratefully received.
Thanks in advance.

Q’s:
1. Will it still GD or am I wasting my time trying to get a decent/profitable crop? Would prefer to meet the soil in person before I pass judgement

1(a). Use any other type of DD drill, including a Horsch or Claydon. My over-riding thought about this is that a tine drill has a wider window of working opportunity than a disc. i.e. a tine will work better in dryer conditions, and in more moist conditions, than a disc will. A tine will also 'create' a little tilth for seed:soil contact and covering the slot whereas a disc will not. Be careful with a leading tine or strip till drill in these conditions. The, deeper running, leading tine can create a slot rather than tilth in more moist conditions. This is counter productive.

2. Am I better to press the reset button and plough it? I refer you to my answer to 1. above

3. Move that intended expensive Bazooka Winter Barley seed to some lighter land that was intended to grow Winter Beans and in effect fallow that heavy land this year. Maybe even Low Disturbance Subsoil it when it dries up enough sometime before 2024’s Autumn. Again I refer you to 1. above.

 

[N44CKL]

I run a Claydon hybrid with their low disturbance kit, in wet conditions I swap the discs out for the leading tine and that allows me to get onto the clay when I don’t think much else would touch it, leading tine just cuts a deeper channel to allow any moisture to drop below the seed level of the twin tines behind. Not ideal but has got me out of trouble. I switch back to standard set-up for our bean kit, bit of a faff but saves buying 2 drills. With the discs on it really is very low disturbance. Also I got rid of the batter boards and run 2 sets of the zig zag following harrows as I found that heavy ground sticks to the boards and drags

 

[Two Tone]

Q’s:
1. Will it still GD or am I wasting my time trying to get a decent/profitable crop? Would prefer to meet the soil in person before I pass judgement

1(a). Use any other type of DD drill, including a Horsch or Claydon. My over-riding thought about this is that a tine drill has a wider window of working opportunity than a disc. i.e. a tine will work better in dryer conditions, and in more moist conditions, than a disc will. A tine will also 'create' a little tilth for seed:soil contact and covering the slot whereas a disc will not. Be careful with a leading tine or strip till drill in these conditions. The, deeper running, leading tine can create a slot rather than tilth in more moist conditions. This is counter productive.

2. Am I better to press the reset button and plough it? I refer you to my answer to 1. above

3. Move that intended expensive Bazooka Winter Barley seed to some lighter land that was intended to grow Winter Beans and in effect fallow that heavy land this year. Maybe even Low Disturbance Subsoil it when it dries up enough sometime before 2024’s Autumn. Again I refer you to 1. above.

Thank you James for all your help.
Nothing like somebody carrying a spade around with them to see the enormous good we had done to this farm by going DD.

As you suggest, we’ll be sticking with plan ‘A’.
GD’ing the Barley into those very bad Blackgrass fields and using the Horsch with the Metcalfe tines on the land coming Winter Beans.

Never have I seen happier earthworms!

 

[YELROM]

Thank you James for all your help.
Nothing like somebody carrying a spade around with them to see the enormous good we had done to this farm by going DD.
View attachment 1139998
View attachment 1139999

As you suggest, we’ll be sticking with plan ‘A’.
GD’ing the Barley into those very bad Blackgrass fields and using the Horsch with the Metcalfe tines on the land coming Winter Beans.

Never have I seen happier earthworms!

Could you plant the beans on the heavier land as there will be more chance to plant them with a tine drill, they will probably do better on the heavy land as well and plant the lighter land with the barley

 

[Two Tone]

Could you plant the beans on the heavier land as there will be more chance to plant them with a tine drill, they will probably do better on the heavy land as well and plant the lighter land with the barley

Normally, that would make perfect sense and you would be 100% right.

However, the heavy land has just grown a break crop in the form of winter Linseed. It is poisoned with Blackgrass, which is why it must come Hybrid Winter Barley rather than Wheat, because that Barley will outcompete the BG.
We would prefer to GD it because we don’t want to disturb any more BG than necessary.

The mostly lighter land is due a break crop and Linseed is a swear word here from now on, so it has to be Beans.
A neighbour buys in a lot of biscuit waste to feed his cattle. That attracts every Rook/Crow in Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire and Warwickshire who will think it fair game to eat all the Beans seed they can find as a starter and main course, before their biscuit desert.
Therefore drilling with a tine drill risks less chance of them poking their beaks down an unclosed GD drill slot to find them.

There is method in our madness, but it might seem cack-handed to start with.

 

[redsloe]

I run a Claydon hybrid with their low disturbance kit, in wet conditions I swap the discs out for the leading tine and that allows me to get onto the clay when I don’t think much else would touch it, leading tine just cuts a deeper channel to allow any moisture to drop below the seed level of the twin tines behind. Not ideal but has got me out of trouble. I switch back to standard set-up for our bean kit, bit of a faff but saves buying 2 drills. With the discs on it really is very low disturbance. Also I got rid of the batter boards and run 2 sets of the zig zag following harrows as I found that heavy ground sticks to the boards and drags

I like this as it's what I do too. Last year half of my crops were drilled using the leading disc. This year I will use the leading tines as its so wet at the minute.
It will reduce your deeper wheelmarks but probably won't aid the blackgrass as you will move more soil.

 

[Tractor Tim]

Normally, that would make perfect sense and you would be 100% right.

However, the heavy land has just grown a break crop in the form of winter Linseed. It is poisoned with Blackgrass, which is why it must come Hybrid Winter Barley rather than Wheat, because that Barley will outcompete the BG.
We would prefer to GD it because we don’t want to disturb any more BG than necessary.

The mostly lighter land is due a break crop and Linseed is a swear word here from now on, so it has to be Beans.
A neighbour buys in a lot of biscuit waste to feed his cattle. That attracts every Rook/Crow in Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire and Warwickshire who will think it fair game to eat all the Beans seed they can find as a starter and main course, before their biscuit desert.
Therefore drilling with a tine drill risks less chance of them poking their beaks down an unclosed GD drill slot to find them.

There is method in our madness, but it might seem cack-handed to start with.

Is it the heavy ground that causes the slot to stay open? Have heard of people moving the spacer on the press wheel to do a better job. I have considered hanging some heavy chain on the back just to rub everything around a bit but not sure it would work

 

[lostdog]

@Two Tone How does the barley look? What did you do in the end?

 

[Two Tone]

@Two Tone How does the barley look? What did you do in the end?

Just over a third is fine.
The next third is a bit ‘also ran’ but I think will be ok.
The last just under a third I think has drowned and needs replanting. It looks like a river Estuary bottom at low tide.

Guess which is the light, medium and heaviest bits?
Now had 24 inches of rain plus 10 storms on it since the beginning of September. Is it surprising?

 

[lostdog]

Ah, maybe not too much to be learnt from that then! Well perhaps that barley drowns like any other crop but I think we already knew that...

 

[Two Tone]

It seems pretty obvious to me that nature on its own is going to struggle to rectify heavy solid enough to soil out the damage that the relentlessly rain has cause soils over the 2023/24 winter.

So IYO, which way do we go and what machine would be best to correct the damage?

Would a Flatlift leave the ground to much like Saw’s teeth?

Is the only answer something like Weaving LD Top Soiler?
Would a LD Top Soiler level rutted tramlines enough?
Even with 2 passes?

Would using any type of Subsoiler prevent a successful claiming of the Direct Drilling SFI payment?

 

[ih1455xl]

We’ve various soil looseners ranging from paraplow brought another one yesterday to add to the collection
Michel bent leg type copy of the remac got a spare one for sale if you want a project
And a TWB frame with grange/cultivating soulution legs at 600mm spacing for ld I think this is 2nd best just could do with leading discs to make it as good as a paraplow