iPad machine control

sleepy · Oct 20, 2013

Brisel said:
I'm purely guessing here, but I would suggest that the aversion to using a progressive platform like an iPad would risk Apple moving it forward faster than the companies designing apps can keep up.

Using an iPad in the cab? Took it home & let it update itself to iOS version whatever? Drilling app won't work for a week until the techs can rewrite the software to match the update? New model out? Doh!

Of course there are issues and hurdles to overcome, but ISOBUS is hopeless at the moment and they have been trying to make it compatible with itself for 20 years. A fresh start is required.

sleepy · Oct 20, 2013

Robt said:
Yes , you are wrong! Stand alone screen running Topcon operating software.

Are you sure the X30 is not based on the Linux kernel?

CPP · Oct 20, 2013

Sleepy said:
Of course there are issues and hurdles to overcome, but ISOBUS is hopeless at the moment and they have been trying to make it compatible with itself for 20 years. A fresh start is required.

Why is isobus hopeless
I'm not finding it a problem with Greenstar and KV and Horsch and reichhartt
With theses it's plug and play
Some other just need a little more work and delopment

Robt · Oct 20, 2013

Sleepy

You have made me question myself now! I'll find out for sure!

sleepy · Oct 20, 2013

CPP said:
Why is isobus hopeless

This is why:
http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=99931

With ISOBUS it is always 'second best', you are too constrained by the limitations of what ISOBUS allows the manufacturer to do.

So all the salesmen go around saying, 'well you can control it with ISOBUS, but if you do that you can't do X, Y and Z, so really you are better off just buying our own computer with is ISOBUS compatible (but only really with our own implements because we have had to bodge the protocol)'

Robt · Oct 20, 2013

Alistair and sleepy,
Apologies. Yes it is based on Linux system.

Learn something new from here everyday!

sleepy · Oct 20, 2013

Robt said:
Alistair and sleepy,
Apologies. Yes it is based on Linux system.

Learn something new from here everyday!

The Linux kernel runs on billions of devices from microwaves to Android phones to the servers that run this website

It is what is known as GPL licensed so you can take it and modify it all you want for your own purposes for no cost, but somewhere in the manual there will be a reference to it.

CPP · Oct 20, 2013

Sleepy said:
This is why:
http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=99931

With ISOBUS it is always 'second best', you are too constrained by the limitations of what ISOBUS allows the manufacturer to do.

So all the salesmen go around saying, 'well you can control it with ISOBUS, but if you do that you can't do X, Y and Z, so really you are better off just buying our own computer with is ISOBUS compatible (but only really with our own implements because we have had to bodge the protocol)'

That was wrote in 2009
Things have moved on and a lot more has happened
To make it work
The biggest problem is not being able to split the screens

sleepy · Oct 20, 2013

CPP said:
That was wrote in 2009
Things have moved on and a lot more has happened
To make it work
The biggest problem is not being able to split the screens

The underlying problem, that CANBUS is just totally the wrong communication protocol for tractor implement communication, has not changed.

Richard Smyth · Oct 20, 2013

What I want is 1 screen in the cab (already have the fendt one) which can control all implements, using the same communication language. Technology will progress but needs to backwards compatible.

I don't particularly want an ipad etc in the cab, I want a neat and clean installation that works. I currently can have up to 3 control boxes in the cab and am getting fed up with it and about to buy another machine. Might have to fill the left hand window too.

They made pto, 3 point linkages, drawbar systems etc all standard, why on earth can't they sort this out.

CPP · Oct 20, 2013

Can't see that
For what I've seen and used it works I've got customers working Iso bus drills doing section control vairate
And not a problem
4 wires and a controllers that's does the communication and receiving

Iso bus seem to be with us for a while so manufactures need all to get together and make sure
It's plug and play and it would make everyone's job easier

Clive · Oct 20, 2013

CPP said:
Can't see the point
Just need all manufacture to work to the ISO bus standards and get this right first

ISO is dead and was from the start - anyone who thought that manufacturers that are in competition with each other were going to share information was very misguided, they all follow the stupid pipe dream that farms should run a single brand of kit across all operations, that will NEVER happen - it's had 10 years now to work and all we have so far is a common plug on some tractors ??? It is still as much use as a chocolate teapot

I can see why manufacturers don't want generic screens controlling though - a iPad etc is a LOT cheaper than a 2600 screen or x30 etc

Clive · Oct 20, 2013

It really should be as simple as wifi connection from machine to cab, download a simple app and control the machine

All that is possible right now and at lower cost than any ISO terminal

Rob Holmes · Oct 20, 2013

It's a pity that none of the big machinery manufacturers aren't reading this!

Clive · Oct 20, 2013

Rob Holmes said:
It's a pity that none of the big machinery manufacturers aren't reading this!

Even if they were I doubt they would be rushing to make it happen - the mark up on their own panels is massive

Compare the price of a iPad etc to a x30 or JD 2600 etc ! They cost no more to make

Plus they see it as a good way to "encourage" customers to buy more of their kit - a JD combine and sprayer make a lot more sense than the alternatives if you already have Greenstar tractors and receivers and screens that can be shared

rob1 · Oct 20, 2013

Why would anyone want anything made by apple in control of a bit of kit is beyond me. The stuff they make is lucky to get to a year old before it starts to play up big style and why would any manufacturer make it easy to one controller for many machines the mark up is huge. Mind you i seem to recall the problems several on here have had with class yield monitors etc..

Steevo · Oct 20, 2013

Clive said:
Even if they were I doubt they would be rushing to make it happen - the mark up on their own panels is massive

Compare the price of a iPad etc to a x30 or JD 2600 etc ! They cost no more to make

Plus they see it as a good way to "encourage" customers to buy more of their kit - a JD combine and sprayer make a lot more sense than the alternatives if you already have Greenstar tractors and receivers and screens that can be shared

In theory maybe...but how many do this? The JD brainwashed maybe....but when choosing equipment, any saving by "reusing" the control box (bearing in mind it's normally just a screen, not a computer itself like an iPad would be) is often minimal. It is often cheaper (or should that be better value) to buy a competitor's product (the one that is right for you and does what you want, rather than just the one that shares the box).

From a contractor's point of view I can see it could be very useful indeed. Each man would have the ability to hook "his" tractor up to any machine at any time. Tractor A could drop the wrapper off at lunchtime, and go ploughing. Tractor B could then come in having finished baling for a customer later that day, pick up the wrapper and return to the field. The current system of having to install a wiring loom onto the tractor to power the implement and the control box, and the implement can only connect to this single loom is very awkward.

Clive · Oct 20, 2013

Steevo said:
In theory maybe...but how many do this? The JD brainwashed maybe....but when choosing equipment, any saving by "reusing" the control box (bearing in mind it's normally just a screen, not a computer itself like an iPad would be) is often minimal. It is often cheaper (or should that be better value) to buy a competitor's product (the one that is right for you and does what you want, rather than just the one that shares the box).

From a contractor's point of view I can see it could be very useful indeed. Each man would have the ability to hook "his" tractor up to any machine at any time. Tractor A could drop the wrapper off at lunchtime, and go ploughing. Tractor B could then come in having finished baling for a customer later that day, pick up the wrapper and return to the field. The current system of having to install a wiring loom onto the tractor to power the implement and the control box, and the implement can only connect to this single loom is very awkward.

JD do it well - they sucker you in with a pretty cheap sf1 starting point on a new tractor purchase, it almost makes no sense not to spec it as salesman will terrify you with tales of no resale value without, next step is to empty your pockets with upgrades and unlocks to sf2 and rtk as you find you like it but want better accuracy and more reliability from signal

Now you come to change your drill, combine and sprayer and guess what the JD option can use your screen, signal and reciever that by now you have invested heavily in ! Buying another brand is going to cost you more as you need new screens, receivers and singnal, you can't easily use other brand GPS with these machines, they even charge if you insist on this route (x30 into a r series for example where I believe JD now even change to unlock the tractor steering to any 3rd party control systems)

It's clever, bit like drug dealing get you invested into their system and then sell more once your into a point where brand changes just make no sense

It's why I have chosen a GPS system that can work with any brand and requires no unlock codes no matter what I do with it, I see GPS kit as a seperate machine just as I would a cultivator that will move to various machines over its life here

When you see how JD try to keep control over how they market Greenstar you can see why ISO will never work - no manufacturer want to make it easy for you to have choice, understandably they want you to buy their products exclusively

Brisel · Oct 20, 2013

Steevo said:
In theory maybe...but how many do this? The JD brainwashed maybe....but when choosing equipment, any saving by "reusing" the control box (bearing in mind it's normally just a screen, not a computer itself like an iPad would be) is often minimal. It is often cheaper (or should that be better value) to buy a competitor's product (the one that is right for you and does what you want, rather than just the one that shares the box).

From a contractor's point of view I can see it could be very useful indeed. Each man would have the ability to hook "his" tractor up to any machine at any time. Tractor A could drop the wrapper off at lunchtime, and go ploughing. Tractor B could then come in having finished baling for a customer later that day, pick up the wrapper and return to the field. The current system of having to install a wiring loom onto the tractor to power the implement and the control box, and the implement can only connect to this single loom is very awkward.

Eh?

Complex machines with settings in the screen should mean that the screen stays with the implement. More basic machines with an exclusive wiring loom take 2 minutes to unscrew the box & lift the cable out of the cab where it feed through the gap under the rear windscreen. What is more simple than that?

JD aren't the only ones who try & keep you buying their gear by making it incompatible with others, but they are good at it. It was a small factor in why I bought a JD combine instead of a competitor's but a factor none the less.

Clive · Oct 20, 2013

When this does inevitably happen it will not come from the tractor manufacturers but more likely the machinery makers as seen with vaderstad and bale bandit already, they are they ones with a commercial reason to make their machine easy compatible with cheap control systems you already have so they can compete with the tractor manufacturers option which works with that expensive terminal you already own

iPad machine control

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