iPad machine control

[Pheasant Surprise]

Found the Claas link from the other thread.http://app.claas.com/2013/sima/en/points-forts/utapp.php

Only Claas (or maybe Deere) could pull off an innovation award for vapourware!

Seriously though. It not a terrible idea, but isn't it just emulating a VT in software? Kind of geeky, like putting an Atari simulator on your tablet. Not exactly 'innovative'. Will they charge 99p for it or 99999p

But what do I know

 

[Cowabunga]

Not sure how Claas qualified for a 'marketing' gold medal for this. And let's face it, the medal system is purely about marketing.

Anyhow, the problem with this general concept is that the implement is not an isolated device to be controlled by the terminal. The advantage of ISObus and an obvious essential feature of any such system is that it integrates the information and control of both tractor and implement and is both fed and feeds information and instruction between the two tools. Not only that but the tractor, for instance, might have several different ECU's that need to talk with the controller and with the implement, for instance the linkage, transmission and engine, all highly sophisticated systems on their own account.

So I doubt if anything is quite as simple as it might seem on the surface.

OTOH they could start by using tablets for simple implement control, using its processor to control servos directly rather than through a complex implement mounted processor [as is found in ISObus]

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Ah but that is through a mains router. I have never found device to device wi-fi to be that reliable out in the field. Bluetooth I have found more reliable but shorter range, fine inside a car but an unknown quantity through obstructions and random interference.

It is surely not an insurmountable problem though, assuming that it is even a problem. I'm just basing the possibility on my own limited experience. Apart from which there would be no issue using wired connections anyhow.

They could make the controller on the implement behave in "Infrastructure" mode (like a router rather than "Ad-Hoc" mode (like a camera). But we're solutioning here in the weeds...

 

[Steevo]

That's fine.
Interesting views, who would offer the after sales support for such a system?

Apple store ?

I think this is probably the biggest plus point for iPad use, the infrastructure and support network is way beyond what any AG kit manufacturer could ever provide

Plenty of one man band type computer guys that are great with iPhones. Phoned a guy up a month back as iPhone wouldn't charge - 2 hours later I'd been to see him and he repaired it there and then while I watched. Apple store was further away, needed a time slot appointment, and I later found out that they wouldn't even repair it but it would be a service exchange for £150 or so!

I paid £20!

Wouldn't be surprised to see a new band of ag. engineers starting up off the back of it doing such support, repairs etc.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Not sure how Claas qualified for a 'marketing' gold medal for this. And let's face it, the medal system is purely about marketing.

Anyhow, the problem with this general concept is that the implement is not an isolated device to be controlled by the terminal. The advantage of ISObus and an obvious essential feature of any such system is that it integrates the information and control of both tractor and implement and is both fed and feeds information and instruction between the two tools. Not only that but the tractor, for instance, might have several different ECU's that need to talk with the controller and with the implement, for instance the linkage, transmission and engine, all highly sophisticated systems on their own account.

So I doubt if anything is quite as simple as it might seem on the surface.

OTOH they could start by using tablets for simple implement control, using its processor to control servos directly rather than through a complex implement mounted processor [as is found in ISObus]

The nerds are at it...

http://cigr.ageng2012.org/images/fotosg/tabla_137_C2134.pdf

 

[Cowabunga]

Truly Everything Everywhere. Have a look at this video. Imagine your toaster connected digitally to your combine which are both connected to your fridge, car, phone, supermarket, oil tank and so on and on. The solution to all the problems you have but haven't even dreamed of yet.

http://www.dquid.com

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

It's exciting and frightening in equal measure

 

[warksfarmer]

Apple store ?

I think this is probably the biggest plus point for iPad use, the infrastructure and support network is way beyond what any AG kit manufacturer could ever provide

I'm honestly not so sure about that anymore. My iPhone 5 11 months old and still with 1 months warranty. The on/off button stopped working like they do. Called EE initially about it and they said talk to apple, so did the online apple diagnostics thing which then gave me 3 options:

1. go into local apple store which is 20 miles away
2. pay £25 for them to call me back
3. pay £25 for them to talk to me online

Choose option 1 and got an appointment in the store for 10am 2 saturdays ago. Went in there for 9.45am and it was rammed. Queued up for 10 mins to then be told I had to que again for 2 hours, yes 2 hours to have my 10am pre-booked appointment at 12pm. They advised not to leave the store either as if my 12pm appointment was moved forward earlier and I was not there, they could not guarantee seeing me at 12pm.

So basically not point in the pre booking system so I left.

I went online and booked another app for yesterday and they sorted it with a replacement phone but I wasted the saturday morning and a 40 mile round trip.

That said EE have knocked 25% off my already cheap 4g contract and I now have a shared sim for an ipad mini for free as well so EE side of things might be getting better (not the signal though) but Apple well ...... not sure.

 

[Clive]

I'm honestly not so sure about that anymore. My iPhone 5 11 months old and still with 1 months warranty. The on/off button stopped working like they do. Called EE initially about it and they said talk to apple, so did the online apple diagnostics thing which then gave me 3 options:

1. go into local apple store which is 20 miles away
2. pay £25 for them to call me back
3. pay £25 for them to talk to me online

Choose option 1 and got an appointment in the store for 10am 2 saturdays ago. Went in there for 9.45am and it was rammed. Queued up for 10 mins to then be told I had to que again for 2 hours, yes 2 hours to have my 10am pre-booked appointment at 12pm. They advised not to leave the store either as if my 12pm appointment was moved forward earlier and I was not there, they could not guarantee seeing me at 12pm.

So basically not point in the pre booking system so I left.

I went online and booked another app for yesterday and they sorted it with a replacement phone but I wasted the saturday morning and a 40 mile round trip.

That said EE have knocked 25% off my already cheap 4g contract and I now have a shared sim for an ipad mini for free as well so EE side of things might be getting better (not the signal though) but Apple well ...... not sure.

When ever I have had a iPhone problem they have just sent a replacement next day - I do pay extra for support though

 

[Andy26]

2. pay £25 for them to call me back
3. pay £25 for them to talk to me online

I think @warksfarmer you've miss typed that, it reads you have to pay them £25 to speak to them on the phone or via online chat.

 

[Andy26]

I think @warksfarmer you've miss typed that, it reads you have to pay them £25 to speak to them on the phone or via online chat.

Apologies, no you hadn't...

http://www.apple.com/uk/support/products/pay-per-incident.html

 

[Steevo]

Cheaper just to buy AppleCare+ for £79 which I guess is what @Clive has.

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/APP_IPHONE_PLUS_AUTO-110480/applecare-for-iphone

 

[sleepy]

Anyhow, the problem with this general concept is that the implement is not an isolated device to be controlled by the terminal. The advantage of ISObus and an obvious essential feature of any such system is that it integrates the information and control of both tractor and implement and is both fed and feeds information and instruction between the two tools. Not only that but the tractor, for instance, might have several different ECU's that need to talk with the controller and with the implement, for instance the linkage, transmission and engine, all highly sophisticated systems on their own account.

How many implements actually require a CANBUS system on them though? So do we really need CANBUS to control a few hydraulic spool valvles on a hedgecutter? Or CANBUS on a baler to tell us when the knotter trip goes? Of course we don't CANBUS has been added to implement pureley because it is a requirement to interface with ISOBUS - the truth is it is completely unnecessary.

I am struggling to think of one implement that really benefits from CANBUS. What would you rather be trying to bypass on a summers night at 3am, a broken analog proximity sensor that is +12ve for on and 0ve for off, or the same sensor in CANBUS format, that not only is 100 times more expensive to replace, but if catch it on a tree, the whole CANBUS throws an error and needs a dealer laptop to reset?

CANBUS is being used on implements purely because someone, long ago decided it was a good idea to base ISOBUS on CANBUS.

OTOH they could start by using tablets for simple implement control, using its processor to control servos directly rather than through a complex implement mounted processor [as is found in ISObus]

Yes, now you have got the idea . All the implement needs is a simple brain, which can switch a load of outputs on / off (or do pwm), and a load inputs that can read sensor values.

These can all be controlled by a simple computer program, that can read the input values and control the outputs. The same brain can then serve up a dynamic webpage that can be displayed on any tablet to control things.

Obviously this isn't going to allow things like that JD baler that drives the tractor, but how many people actually want that technology? And how many implement manufacturers are actually going to bother investing in it in the near future. It has taken 20 years to get essentially no where with ISOBUS!


Regarding your point about reliability, I disagree with you there, if we can use WiFi to
fly drones and helicopters,
remove terrorist bombs from buildings,
cut motorway embankments,
launch the worlds biggest firework displays,
control HIABs,
control traffic lights,
and control train signalling

... then I am sure it is not beyond the wit of man to use WiFi to switch yer slurry tanker on and off!

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Spot on Sleepy! You're not really sleepy are you.

 

[Steevo]

Love those examples @Sleepy !

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I've been thinking more about that Claas VT emulation app that eulb linked.

If/when it ever see's the light of day it could actually be a useful 'bridge' technology and could enable a steady and cheap migration path or for that matter co-existence of ISOBUS and any successor technology using tablets as the common infrastructure.

No reason why the ISOBUS app couldn't for example sit along side the Vaddy app or the Bale Barron app - you just choose which one to launch. Same tablet. Move tablet to a different machine away you go. The tablet could connect to the implement via WiFi, Bluetooth, or wired connection pretty much out of the box.

 

[JNP]

What happens when thewifi signal does down for a day, does the world fall apart?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

What happens when thewifi signal does down for a day, does the world fall apart?

Steal (back) your kids iPad.

 

[Robt]

My only concern. Speaking from one that's at the forefront of this tech. Some of my users struggle with a basic GPS system.
They,d never cope with an app interface. The weakest link is often the very skilled but senior operator.
Remember this is being discussed on an Internet forum.... A good 60% of my drivers would say a what??????

 

[Brisel]

What happens when thewifi signal does down for a day, does the world fall apart?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?neww...bnh=176&tbnw=210&start=0&ndsp=29&tx=103&ty=85