iPad machine control

[Clive]

Just seen the vaderstad iPad case / link to implement control http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/vaders...izing-tempo-with-vaederstad-e-services-903355

Looks like the future, Wifi connection to what ever machine is attached to give control - portable out of the cab etc, we already have iPads in all cabs for recording so I guess this is the logical step

ISO standard isn't seem to have happened so are apps for machines the future ?

Someone really should do a tablet based autosteer

 

[Clive]

 

[dazza b]

It will b the way it all goes! Would be a big plus if all machines would work off the iPad or something similar and then get rid of all the different boxes for each machine data logging and the likes would just b so simple it's a no brainier in my eyes!

 

[Clive]

ISO seems to have been a complete failure - as far as I can tell the only standard thing about it is the plug and socket which in these wifi days is pretty obsolete already I guess

iPad and similar offer cheap processing power and user friendly, familiar interface, it cost very little to write apps and upgrades are easy

(And you can browse the forum while drilling !)

 

[dazza b]

It is the way forward like u say iso is more or less failed with a tablet and sim package everything could be updated in the office whilst still in the field it would make record keeping nearly enjoyable lol

 

[Slick]

Trimble's new TMX display uses the Android operating system.

Whatever that means.

 

[sleepy]

I spoke to some ISOBUS guy from Kverneland about 3 or 4 years ago and asked why they were still wasting time on ISOBUS considering it was such an antiquated and difficult protocol with such little bandwidth.

He replied that ISOBUS was wonderful and soon every implement and tractor would be talking to each other (basically oblivious to the problems).

I tried to sell him on the advantages of an open source wifi / tablet based version perhaps using http / HTML / web sockets / app based perhaps but he look at me blankly

Wonder if he would say the same thing today?

 

[Niels]

The big issue with consumer electronics on farm machinery is reliability. Mr Jobs designed the iPad to look at your email and surf on the web. Not to use it with RTK steering or yield mapping. Yes, it might be possible to control certain features, but I can't see it taking over all controls.

Kverneland have tried their best with Isobus, and its a great idea. However, most manufactures still want farmers to buy THEIR machinery and THEIR screen. It is all sold as compatible but rarely works. When you do get it to work it is lovely.

iPads and other tablets are nice for some little tasks. Claas and Argo have both shown an app to control the tractor and implement. However, this was just a test to see how the public would react. Nothing serious has been undertaken. Väderstad is the first to do so, and it's an interesting one.

 

[Alistair Nelson]

Spoke to a drill manufacturer who said they had been offered a tramline / rate control system that worked off an iPad via wifi sounded very similar to what vaderstad are doing it sounds very good idea as long as the wifi link was reliable. we all need to think of the resale value and possibly buying an iPad or nicking one of the kids is better than buying a s/h fert spreader and finding you need to buy a bespoke control box as your tractor isn't isobus and the previous owners was.

Alistair

 

[sleepy]

The big issue with consumer electronics on farm machinery is reliability. Mr Jobs designed the iPad to look at your email and surf on the web. Not to use it with RTK steering or yield mapping. Yes, it might be possible to control certain features, but I can't see it taking over all controls.

Kverneland have tried their best with Isobus, and its a great idea. However, most manufactures still want farmers to buy THEIR machinery and THEIR screen. It is all sold as compatible but rarely works. When you do get it to work it is lovely.

iPads and other tablets are nice for some little tasks. Claas and Argo have both shown an app to control the tractor and implement. However, this was just a test to see how the public would react. Nothing serious has been undertaken. Väderstad is the first to do so, and it's an interesting one.

Bale Bandit have done it successfully

http://www.balebandit.com/model-200/monitor-2/

You have however summed up why the uptake is so slow - the markup the manufacturers can get away with on some of these 'control boxes' is close to daylight robbery.

 

[Blue.]

I think this was mentioned way back in Feb,its certainly is a good idea.

I've looked for controllers but they all seem to be 24v or 240v

 

[Steevo]

Bale Bandit have done it successfully

http://www.balebandit.com/model-200/monitor-2/

You have however summed up why the uptake is so slow - the markup the manufacturers can get away with on some of these 'control boxes' is close to daylight robbery.

Wow! That's impressive!

 

[Clive]

Bale Bandit have done it successfully

http://www.balebandit.com/model-200/monitor-2/

You have however summed up why the uptake is so slow - the markup the manufacturers can get away with on some of these 'control boxes' is close to daylight robbery.

this is the future when you look at that

 

[Steevo]

They'll probably start to charge a premium for iPad machine control as an "optional extra" knowing manufacturers!

Seriously though, given most in cab boxes are just screens, it wouldn't surprise me if there was no saving to be had by this.

 

[Rob Holmes]

Ipads as Controllers for machines - I said that years ago, where do i get my commission?

 

[Chae1]

Ipads as Controllers for machines - I said that years ago, where do i get my commission?

You were right.

 

[marco]

whats all this crap about ipads? The only sensible option is to do this with android os so people can buy what ever make model they want and plus you can get a cheap version for a hundred ish running android that you could leave on the tractor or leave one on every tractor

 

[Blue.]

whats all this crap about ipads? The only sensible option is to do this with android os so people can buy what ever make model they want and plus you can get a cheap version for a hundred ish running android that you could leave on the tractor or leave one on every tractor

Or use your phone.

 

[Cowabunga]

whats all this crap about ipads? The only sensible option is to do this with android os so people can buy what ever make model they want and plus you can get a cheap version for a hundred ish running android that you could leave on the tractor or leave one on every tractor

Most good apps have versions for iPad and Android as well as W8 increasingly these days.

An example is one of my cameras that has apps for my Android pad and my iPhone and connects either through conventional wi-fi or through Near Field Communication on devices so equipped. It is amazingly sophisticated in what it can do, not only controlling all main camera parameters and modes but also focussing and, well, just about everything apart from turning the PASM selector. Not only that but it can record events in real time on the mobile device, or choose to transfer some or all later. My issue with such a sophisticated system is that there is hardly any guidance as to how to use it. That is left to the user to find out for him or herself, and most of it is far from obvious.

The greatest problem I see with all this is the reliability of the wireless communication when used in harsh and critical environments such as machines.
As with ISO-bus, the implement will probably have to have its own information processing unit and a control and feedback system that makes use of it. Certainly not simple and not for people who prefer levers to control things manually. However using relatively cheap and easily sourced and replaced, consumer-type tablet computers for controlling machines must surely be a better way forward than wasting resources on complex in-house solutions that cost the customer a bomb. Indeed, once a couple of machinery manufacturers start down this road, price and performance competition will force others down the same road.
ISO-bus is probably on the way out. It has had its chance and failed, while technology moves on.
Imagine fitting all your prime-movers with a tablet control system from Amazon for £99 each including VAT. It is certainly up to the job.

 

[sleepy]

Most good apps have versions for iPad and Android as well as W8 increasingly these days.

An example is one of my cameras that has apps for my Android pad and my iPhone and connects either through conventional wi-fi or through Near Field Communication on devices so equipped. It is amazingly sophisticated in what it can do, not only controlling all main camera parameters and modes but also focussing and, well, just about everything apart from turning the PASM selector. Not only that but it can record events in real time on the mobile device, or choose to transfer some or all later. My issue with such a sophisticated system is that there is hardly any guidance as to how to use it. That is left to the user to find out for him or herself, and most of it is far from obvious.

The greatest problem I see with all this is the reliability of the wireless communication when used in harsh and critical environments such as machines.
As with ISO-bus, the implement will probably have to have its own information processing unit and a control and feedback system that makes use of it. Certainly not simple and not for people who prefer levers to control things manually. However using relatively cheap and easily sourced and replaced, consumer-type tablet computers for controlling machines must surely be a better way forward than wasting resources on complex in-house solutions that cost the customer a bomb. Indeed, once a couple of machinery manufacturers start down this road, price and performance competition will force others down the same road.
ISO-bus is probably on the way out. It has had its chance and failed, while technology moves on.
Imagine fitting all your prime-movers with a tablet control system from Amazon for £99 each including VAT. It is certainly up to the job.

I think one of the things that machinery manufacturers have missed is that implement controls do not have to be 100% reliable with no chance of an error - which is what CANBUS is designed to be.
It does not really matter if you get to the end of a row and press the button to raise the pickup, and it takes 20 milliseconds instead of 10 milliseconds to trigger the lift because the first transission errored out and it had to be resent, does it?

In the actual tractor, there can be no margin for error (you don't want to hit the brakes and the computer to crash, even if the chance of it happening was 1 in 10 mil), but most implements are actually fairly rudimentary in the sort of control that they require (status monitoring, and switching on / off valve blocks would cover 95% of cases). It's OK for an implement to fail safe and simply shut itself down if something goes wrong - but you don't want a tractor to fail safe and simply shutdown when you are hurtling down a road at 50k.

CANBUS is great for the comms between all the different components inside a tractor, but it was never a good idea to try and make it a universal standard, and it is currently just a total wreck of incompatible software, and manufacturers inventing their own specs because the official ones are so limited.

For universal uptake amongst manufacturers they system needs to be extremely flexible and very cost effective to write the software to interface with (ie. as easy as it is for them to use their existing monitors). CANBUS is neither of these things by a long stretch and offers an extremely limited amount of bandwidth, which is why we now have these quasi-isobus systems which hook into the tractor ISOBUS system but have their own communication protocol between manufacturer's monitor in cab and implement.

Here is a good thread about it, just a shame the manufacturers all have their heads buried so deeply in the sand! http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=99931