SilliamWhale
Member
No.
A question for you - is it necessary to "decompact" soil every september for a crop your going to harvest the following August?
Compaction is it a myth???
- Thread starter mikep
- Start date
No.
A question for you - is it necessary to "decompact" soil every september for a crop your going to harvest the following August?
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't profess to know the answer to that definitively.
I would hope not, but I'm not closing my mind to the alternative.
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
1st point: so what? I'm interested in the financial productivity of the land (over the medium-long term), I don't care how quickly marks disappear. Cosmetics are unimportant.
2nd point: agree 100%
SilliamWhale
Member
But I'd say that there has been a historic, even axiomatic presumption that this is the case . Why do you think this has been so? .
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Because it has provided better results in the past, when looking at the overall picture.
Ref DD in the 1970s, and how that went.
SilliamWhale
Member
What went wrong?
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Don't know. Not many of those who tried it felt it worked very well though.
SilliamWhale
Member
I have a nice little book from ICI about direct drilling in the 70's. They had some profiles of farms doing quite well with it. I'll put some interesting articles from it up on here.
I think the straw burning was both friend and foe to them, as well as probably roundup not being as cheap as diesel and drills not closing the slot.
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
All are probably true.
I have a friend (he's been alluded to on this thread) who uses a full CTF system. So far this harvest his wheats (first and second) are averaging 11.84t/ha.
Cause or correlation?
SilliamWhale
Member
No till or till?
I'd say my feeling is you could get those yields with or without CTF and without or without tillage and I'd be hesitant to pin it on any one factor.
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Definitely till!
Is there anyone in the country farming large acreages (this guy's over 4,000) getting yields anywhere near that with DD?
I wouldn't pin it on CTF either, but they are undeniably EXCELLENT yields, and I think the system has to be deserving of close scrutiny for that reason.
He might have only harvested his best fields though...!
I don't think you can read too much into this years results, I have so far cut wheat that has averaged 3.4t/acre, this suffered terrible takeall as a second wheat after spring stuff last year, the sample is horrible too. I am currently cutting the same variety, also second wheat but following winter wheat last year and the sample is in a different world and so is the yield, reverse the numbers and you will have it. It's gallant all direct drilled, pity that takeall has reared its head so badly after spring wheat, but live and learn and don't do it again.
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
You asked the question about compacting non cultivated soil without any reference to productivty, I answered it, if you dont care why ask?
With reference to your friend yielding near 12t/ha I ask the question how come yields are nationally flat lining? it would suggest that others were declining. If, as the no tillers claim, their yeilds are getting better then I am afraid the losses are coming from 'cultivated' farms. Swings and roundabouts?
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
No tillers can claim what they want - it's easy to see what you would like to believe. This goes equally for tillers as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Maybe yields are flatlining because of too much compaction from ever increasing machine weights. In which case the answer to the thread title is obvious. Are yields flat lining on CTF farms?
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
Probably
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
If I came on here and said "I've just visited a neighbour who's using cover crops and no till to grow 12t/ha wheat crops" then I bet everyone would be jumping up and down wetting their pants in vindicated excitement.
When I say the same about tillage & CTF, that's obviously not the reason; it's just one of those years, would have been the same with no till etc etc.
Open your minds people, I thought this was the section of the forum that held the progressive thinkers. Perhaps not.
When I say the same about tillage & CTF, that's obviously not the reason; it's just one of those years, would have been the same with no till etc etc.
Open your minds people, I thought this was the section of the forum that held the progressive thinkers. Perhaps not.
- Location
- Vale of Belvoir
You got there before me! Well said
Just to add back in the day, well before me. we were direct drilling with a LD disc drill and the single biggest problem was compaction, closely followed by brome. I know tractor tyres have improve since then but it was a big enough problem for my father to stop notil after not far off 10 years.
ctf just seems like obvious progression to me on our farm, our own rtk network been installed for 5 years, as kits up for replacement make it fit. be flexible not ludicrously rigid, if you need to skew the marks occasionally then fine if the land can hold the machines, not when its sopping wet. i don't understand why people bash it so much, you know where the compaction is and can deal with it.
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Doesn't fit the agenda