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Arable Farming
Cropping
Question: What's stopping more farmers practicing silvoarable/agroforestry?
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<blockquote data-quote="egbert" data-source="post: 7269058" data-attributes="member: 9965"><p>OK</p><p></p><p>you deserve a more careful reply.</p><p></p><p>It's a nice image, and the video waxes lyrical on it.</p><p>But reality is different.</p><p>If we're to retain any semblance of viability/vitality - and the interaction twixt subs and economic farming are done to death here and elsewhere- working farmers need to produce something marketable, at a price the consumer will/can pay.</p><p>And the logistics of producing small quantities of mixed fruit/nuts as shown are simply light years from how I understand commercial producers do it.</p><p>And even then, if there's a glitch in the supply of eastern European labour to pick it, or the weather goes against you, or Tesco decides there's a R in the month....half of it will end up on the floor, rotting.</p><p>That's the reality.</p><p></p><p>And there's 10's of millions of UK consumers who we'd NEVER reach without going through supermarkets.</p><p></p><p>Intercropping with arable/tillage etc.... as said by exponents elsewhere above.... ANYTHING which snags machinery/drops limbs into the way/ effs up efficient crop management is dead in the water. End of.</p><p></p><p>And as I've indicated, agroforestry with livestock ....unless they're very fat and lazy indeed, the beasts will simply skin the trees.</p><p>So the fencing costs are eyewateringly expensive. </p><p></p><p>Growing widely spaced trees like this for timber production requires VERY favourable conditions...otherwise you'd just have misshapen bushes which aren't worth sh1t.</p><p>On good/sheltered ground, just the pruning costs limit the crop to a very finite and highly specialised market. It is contrary to the basic fundaments of silviculture.</p><p></p><p>All of the land for miles around me falls in the other class.............you need a plantation depth of 20-30 meters to grow timber of much quality at the absolute minimum. </p><p>(AND fruit doesn't set or ripen here, and we carefully selectively breed sheep which will make it their business to stand on each others backs to browse trees...... these things haven't happened and evolved for no reason. the system has grown because it works)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The concept can and does work in poor countries, and a cheap manual labour/subsistence system. That ain't us though.</p><p></p><p>I'm not trying to be negative. far from it.</p><p>Indeed, I've run the maths on growing standards in hedgerows for profit, I've carefully lobbied for silviculture to be a required part of any agri-college course...without luck. </p><p>I have planted new woodlands on 2nd rate ground, I understand I'm at the cutting edge of trying new exotic commercial tree species in UK farm woodland environs, I run a specialist hardwood sawmill. I correspond with experts-inc AF- all over the globe - who kindly suffer my ignorance. </p><p>And I publish 50,000 words a year on related subjects. </p><p>I'll pull up those on my own side who make claims that can't be substantiated. </p><p></p><p>What I can't abide is the current reframing of UK farm support/direction being based on woolly horsesh1t.</p><p>We're inundated with wannabes and do-gooders, clinging to the least fantastic bit of nonsense, fondly imagining that saying nice things and thinking nice thoughts will stop the world going down the toilet from our collective selfish short-sighted actions.</p><p>I won't be made a scapegoat, or allow my culture to be beaten down by conscience-salving-urban-fantasy.</p><p>And sadly, the embracing of AF looks pretty much like exactly more of that.</p><p> </p><p>Nuff?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="egbert, post: 7269058, member: 9965"] OK you deserve a more careful reply. It's a nice image, and the video waxes lyrical on it. But reality is different. If we're to retain any semblance of viability/vitality - and the interaction twixt subs and economic farming are done to death here and elsewhere- working farmers need to produce something marketable, at a price the consumer will/can pay. And the logistics of producing small quantities of mixed fruit/nuts as shown are simply light years from how I understand commercial producers do it. And even then, if there's a glitch in the supply of eastern European labour to pick it, or the weather goes against you, or Tesco decides there's a R in the month....half of it will end up on the floor, rotting. That's the reality. And there's 10's of millions of UK consumers who we'd NEVER reach without going through supermarkets. Intercropping with arable/tillage etc.... as said by exponents elsewhere above.... ANYTHING which snags machinery/drops limbs into the way/ effs up efficient crop management is dead in the water. End of. And as I've indicated, agroforestry with livestock ....unless they're very fat and lazy indeed, the beasts will simply skin the trees. So the fencing costs are eyewateringly expensive. Growing widely spaced trees like this for timber production requires VERY favourable conditions...otherwise you'd just have misshapen bushes which aren't worth sh1t. On good/sheltered ground, just the pruning costs limit the crop to a very finite and highly specialised market. It is contrary to the basic fundaments of silviculture. All of the land for miles around me falls in the other class.............you need a plantation depth of 20-30 meters to grow timber of much quality at the absolute minimum. (AND fruit doesn't set or ripen here, and we carefully selectively breed sheep which will make it their business to stand on each others backs to browse trees...... these things haven't happened and evolved for no reason. the system has grown because it works) The concept can and does work in poor countries, and a cheap manual labour/subsistence system. That ain't us though. I'm not trying to be negative. far from it. Indeed, I've run the maths on growing standards in hedgerows for profit, I've carefully lobbied for silviculture to be a required part of any agri-college course...without luck. I have planted new woodlands on 2nd rate ground, I understand I'm at the cutting edge of trying new exotic commercial tree species in UK farm woodland environs, I run a specialist hardwood sawmill. I correspond with experts-inc AF- all over the globe - who kindly suffer my ignorance. And I publish 50,000 words a year on related subjects. I'll pull up those on my own side who make claims that can't be substantiated. What I can't abide is the current reframing of UK farm support/direction being based on woolly horsesh1t. We're inundated with wannabes and do-gooders, clinging to the least fantastic bit of nonsense, fondly imagining that saying nice things and thinking nice thoughts will stop the world going down the toilet from our collective selfish short-sighted actions. I won't be made a scapegoat, or allow my culture to be beaten down by conscience-salving-urban-fantasy. And sadly, the embracing of AF looks pretty much like exactly more of that. Nuff? [/QUOTE]
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Question: What's stopping more farmers practicing silvoarable/agroforestry?
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