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Red and white diesel and farming operations
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<blockquote data-quote="Simon Chiles" data-source="post: 8157166" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>I’d be the first to admit that I don’t know everything, and you’ve got to realise that in this sort of situation each case has to be judged on its own merits, as such it will always be impossible to give a definitive answer. However, in the interests of full disclosure I must point out that I was in discussion ( along with many others ) with HMRC about the legal use of rebated fuel and would like to think that I had a much better comprehension of the subject than most.</p><p>To answer your points:-</p><p>1) As these discussions took eight years and I wasn’t paid by anyone to be in them I think it a little unfair to say that I don’t give a monkey’s.</p><p>2 and 3) Maintaining the land doesn’t qualify you to use red. There are numerous contractors that get paid to remove grass from parks, some of them actually make it into hay and sell it to the equestrian market but because they are being paid to clear the grass they are running on white. Just because you graze your ground with horses doesn’t make it agricultural, just the same as a tree surgeon isn’t classed as forestry.</p><p>4) As far as I’m aware, even long before I was in discussions with HMRC, it has always been illegal to use red diesel when keeping animals for sport or leisure.</p><p>5) Nobody said you were supplying the livery yard for leisure, we understand that that is your business. It’s not the point. The fact is that the horses are used for leisure. If you were keeping the horses for blood donation or meat that would be a different matter.</p><p>6) Laws only come about by one of three mechanisms, an act of parliament, a statutory instrument ( which basically better defines the act of parliament ) or case law. If you are so certain the you are right you are more than welcome to see if you can become the case law that defines the situation for everyone else. I suspect that it would cost you a small fortune as I doubt HMRC would take it lightly but I can assure you that we’ll watch the case with interest.</p><p>7) The rules don’t mention equine as such because as I have stated above you could legitimately be farming horses. For clarity it’s what you ( or your customers ) do with the horse that would or wouldn’t qualify the keeping them as agriculture.</p><p>I hope this information helps you. I don’t mind having a sensible discussion with you on here, but if you decide to be aggressive or abusive I will withdraw from the dialogue. Thanks</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Simon Chiles, post: 8157166, member: 1233"] I’d be the first to admit that I don’t know everything, and you’ve got to realise that in this sort of situation each case has to be judged on its own merits, as such it will always be impossible to give a definitive answer. However, in the interests of full disclosure I must point out that I was in discussion ( along with many others ) with HMRC about the legal use of rebated fuel and would like to think that I had a much better comprehension of the subject than most. To answer your points:- 1) As these discussions took eight years and I wasn’t paid by anyone to be in them I think it a little unfair to say that I don’t give a monkey’s. 2 and 3) Maintaining the land doesn’t qualify you to use red. There are numerous contractors that get paid to remove grass from parks, some of them actually make it into hay and sell it to the equestrian market but because they are being paid to clear the grass they are running on white. Just because you graze your ground with horses doesn’t make it agricultural, just the same as a tree surgeon isn’t classed as forestry. 4) As far as I’m aware, even long before I was in discussions with HMRC, it has always been illegal to use red diesel when keeping animals for sport or leisure. 5) Nobody said you were supplying the livery yard for leisure, we understand that that is your business. It’s not the point. The fact is that the horses are used for leisure. If you were keeping the horses for blood donation or meat that would be a different matter. 6) Laws only come about by one of three mechanisms, an act of parliament, a statutory instrument ( which basically better defines the act of parliament ) or case law. If you are so certain the you are right you are more than welcome to see if you can become the case law that defines the situation for everyone else. I suspect that it would cost you a small fortune as I doubt HMRC would take it lightly but I can assure you that we’ll watch the case with interest. 7) The rules don’t mention equine as such because as I have stated above you could legitimately be farming horses. For clarity it’s what you ( or your customers ) do with the horse that would or wouldn’t qualify the keeping them as agriculture. I hope this information helps you. I don’t mind having a sensible discussion with you on here, but if you decide to be aggressive or abusive I will withdraw from the dialogue. Thanks [/QUOTE]
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