Forums
New posts
Forum list
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New resources
Latest activity
Trending Threads
Resources
Latest reviews
Search resources
FarmTV
Farm Compare
Search
Tokens/Searches
Calendar
Upcoming Events
Members
Registered members
Current visitors
New Resources
New posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Forum list
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Navigation
Install the app
Install
More options
Contact us
Close Menu
Forums
Farm Business
Agricultural Matters
Soil Erosion advice needed
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kiwi Pete" data-source="post: 7213258" data-attributes="member: 63856"><p>They disappear over time - you'll always have a few thistles on a grass landscape, few things are surer than this! But the difference between our pastures, and those with sheep on all year, are like night and day. Especially if you care to try and dig a hole at the neighbour's![ATTACH=full]917779[/ATTACH]</p><p>This is 3 days after I took our mob out, and the neighbour moved his to another section.[ATTACH=full]917780[/ATTACH]</p><p>this was a photo a local grazing coach took a couple of years back, to show what we are up against in terms of thistle health. </p><p>The key is to make sure the pasture is as healthy as "the weeds are" because when you think about it, the thistle rhizome is like the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, when it comes to leached soluble nutrients.</p><p></p><p>A grass pasture is only on the first step as far as diversity goes, even if the seed man puts 14 different ryegrasses and a cupful of Lofa in the bag <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🙄" title="Face with rolling eyes :rolling_eyes:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/6.5/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" data-shortname=":rolling_eyes:" /> it's still simple, for "simple management" reasons. But the landscape needs more 'wood' in it, it needs brown litter sources like spent grass stalks, docks and thistles, in the absence of trees and scrubby plants that catch silica from the wind and feed it into the soil microbiome. </p><p>As we shift to more manicured pastures, the silica cycle goes virtually non-existent, in spite of the fact most soils are made of silica and aluminium the two are locked so tightly together that the Si isn't available.</p><p>Add a dribble of acid-based fertiliser and suddenly you create a cascade of free Al to kill the microbiology, but the silica remains bound, and suddenly those glues lose their grip and the soil particles begin to break down and compaction starts.</p><p></p><p>This is where the thistles/woody weeds like goldenrod etc come into play, as you say [USER=1880]@Flat 10[/USER] they do have a powerful enough root to bust that "chemical pan" that the free Al in the soil solution is causing, but also the stickiness to capture plenty of dust and transfer it to the surface as they die down.</p><p></p><p>But, here's a thing - on the left side of those photos, Spicer's paddock is HARD as f**k, there is maybe 4 inches of turf and it is like young brick below that. It isn't superphosphate+lime that has done that, just purely overgrazing during the peak growing season.</p><p>We're talking several hundred psi on the penetrometer, no roots below 6 inches.</p><p></p><p>Jump on our side, rod goes straight in, it will maybe hit 100psi if you shove it in fast but more like 80-90psi. </p><p>Soil structure... partly due to rotational grazing but also due to deeper roots - and thistles that I don't dislike. </p><p>When you plough a lot of land, thistle patches are usually where you can hook a higher gear or change range. (rushes and sedge grasses, are usually where you change back down) but air in the soil is vital to reducing erosion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kiwi Pete, post: 7213258, member: 63856"] They disappear over time - you'll always have a few thistles on a grass landscape, few things are surer than this! But the difference between our pastures, and those with sheep on all year, are like night and day. Especially if you care to try and dig a hole at the neighbour's![ATTACH type="full"]917779[/ATTACH] This is 3 days after I took our mob out, and the neighbour moved his to another section.[ATTACH type="full"]917780[/ATTACH] this was a photo a local grazing coach took a couple of years back, to show what we are up against in terms of thistle health. The key is to make sure the pasture is as healthy as "the weeds are" because when you think about it, the thistle rhizome is like the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, when it comes to leached soluble nutrients. A grass pasture is only on the first step as far as diversity goes, even if the seed man puts 14 different ryegrasses and a cupful of Lofa in the bag 🙄 it's still simple, for "simple management" reasons. But the landscape needs more 'wood' in it, it needs brown litter sources like spent grass stalks, docks and thistles, in the absence of trees and scrubby plants that catch silica from the wind and feed it into the soil microbiome. As we shift to more manicured pastures, the silica cycle goes virtually non-existent, in spite of the fact most soils are made of silica and aluminium the two are locked so tightly together that the Si isn't available. Add a dribble of acid-based fertiliser and suddenly you create a cascade of free Al to kill the microbiology, but the silica remains bound, and suddenly those glues lose their grip and the soil particles begin to break down and compaction starts. This is where the thistles/woody weeds like goldenrod etc come into play, as you say [USER=1880]@Flat 10[/USER] they do have a powerful enough root to bust that "chemical pan" that the free Al in the soil solution is causing, but also the stickiness to capture plenty of dust and transfer it to the surface as they die down. But, here's a thing - on the left side of those photos, Spicer's paddock is HARD as f**k, there is maybe 4 inches of turf and it is like young brick below that. It isn't superphosphate+lime that has done that, just purely overgrazing during the peak growing season. We're talking several hundred psi on the penetrometer, no roots below 6 inches. Jump on our side, rod goes straight in, it will maybe hit 100psi if you shove it in fast but more like 80-90psi. Soil structure... partly due to rotational grazing but also due to deeper roots - and thistles that I don't dislike. When you plough a lot of land, thistle patches are usually where you can hook a higher gear or change range. (rushes and sedge grasses, are usually where you change back down) but air in the soil is vital to reducing erosion. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Farm Business
Agricultural Matters
Soil Erosion advice needed
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top