Spraying W Wheat

franklin · Dec 16, 2015

Brisel said:
Why apply Bravo now??? You're wasting a dose in the spring where the return on investment is far better. Yield responses to autumn fungicides in cereals is fudge all unless it's an epidemic of rust or mildew that will otherwise kill the crop.

This is just a red herring.

Sorry, wasnt worded very well. Not applying Bravo now - just comparing two similarly priced "insurance" sprays and my willingness to apply one and unwillingness to apply another.

100% SPD wheat this year all drilled in mid to late October and none has or will have an insecticide. All will get T0 (and probably 1,2,3) Bravo. Thats despite both being sold as insurance or protection. Was similar in OSR where we have stopped putting in chem in every pass simply as it was cheap. 4 x cheap = not so cheap. Suppose its a lot different if you are in an area known for it, but how much is need and how much is "well, suppose its possible we might get it" so apply?

I dont want to turn my mind back to "ah, well we didnt need all this in the olden days and still did 4t" guff, but the amount of stuff going on now even with a tighter reign on the agronomy is shocking. Autumn and spring applied foliar boron on OSR for example seems ubiquitous. Does it work? Does it heck.

Are margins tight and so we need to be quite so prophylactic? Or are they more tight because we have adopted this "only £1.50" view on cheap chem and are too busy watching the pounds (rent & Fendt) we have taken our eyes off the pennies?

shakerator · Dec 16, 2015

Clive said:
how can you say it does ?

should i be going for chemotherapy "incase" I might get cancer ?

did you know they attempted to explain cancer from a virus based theory back in the 1980's before aids came along

Gong Farmer · Dec 16, 2015

What with £140/ha fungicide and similar herbicide bills I'm hearing more growers questioning our obsession with wheat. I was thinking of starting a thread on 'rotations without wheat' just to get ideas but decided against it. Perhaps I should have a rethink.

franklin · Dec 16, 2015

Fromebridge said:
What with £140/ha fungicide and similar herbicide bills I'm hearing more growers questioning our obsession with wheat. I was thinking of starting a thread on 'rotations without wheat' just to get ideas but decided against it. Perhaps I should have a rethink.

It's a valid point. To break them in gently, perhaps a "benefits of a long rotation for wheat" thread? My 2p is that wheat benefits from a long break just as much as OSR.......perhaps more.

Brisel · Dec 16, 2015

Fromebridge said:
What with £140/ha fungicide and similar herbicide bills I'm hearing more growers questioning our obsession with wheat. I was thinking of starting a thread on 'rotations without wheat' just to get ideas but decided against it. Perhaps I should have a rethink.

That's a very valid question to ask IMHO.

Quite what you replace it with is another matter. With blackgrass herbicide options in other crops being limited what is the alternative? Continuous spring barley is ok for light land growers but you still have to obey 3 crop rules and consider logistics of harvesting & planting. For those able to restructure machinery costs by expanding at reasonable cost a fallow/osr/wheat isn't bad.

shakerator · Dec 16, 2015

If you drop wheat for other cereals you drop turnover dramatically. If you have bloated overheads that is a problem. If you are a lean business who's predominant costs are field growing costs I would say crack on. Many would say farming should be more like the latter. This is why many farmers ignore gross margin sheets. The overheads are so ingrained into the business isolating field growing economics is meaningless. Yet this is supply and demand at its finest

franklin · Dec 16, 2015

OSR/S barley/OSR/WW

OSR volunteers as a free cover crop before spring barley? Could even swap the 2nd OSR for linseed. Benefits from one wheat in 4 rather than one in two will be large. Choose early wheat variety. Maximising 1st wheats is a waste of time if you cant control the grassweeds with patience of chemicals.

Brisel · Dec 16, 2015

ajd132 said:
What on earth is the state of agriculture going to be in if this chemical based 'insurance' thing carries on.
Are people blind to the fact that chemical use keeps creeping up, resistance increasing, yields stuck?
In twenty years time people will be doing a t-4 and t7 fungicide spray if it carries on like this.

So how do you control septoria without preventative treatment? This week's Farmers Weekly had an article on target site resistance to SDHIs found in Ireland. They won't be growing wheat if this keeps up.

Is septoria control any cheaper in later or thinner sown wheats? Denying the disease it's favoured microclimate in a dense canopy might reduce its impact.

Going back to the OP, it would be interesting to see how often untreated cereals have actually got BYDV over the last 20 years. With that information, you could have a fair go at calculating a theoretical risk of infection and a develop a warning system, much like the likes of TAG do for sclerotinia germination conditions. I do remember BYDV damage in 2012 from the mild 2011 back end where anyone in the South West had big problems if insecticide intervals got stretched. Perhaps as @richard hammond has said in the past, pyrethroids are too cheap?!

static said:
OSR/S barley/OSR/WW

OSR volunteers as a free cover crop before spring barley? Could even swap the 2nd OSR for linseed. Benefits from one wheat in 4 rather than one in two will be large. Choose early wheat variety. Maximising 1st wheats is a waste of time if you cant control the grassweeds with patience of chemicals.

I don't fancy the slug pellet & charlock control bill much! I prefer the linseed option for the second break.

franklin · Dec 16, 2015

Do any of you see BYDV around grass field margins? I have seen it in winter barley, but not in wheat.

Brisel said:
I don't fancy the slug pellet & charlock control bill much! I prefer the linseed option for the second break.

First option was the "break them in gently" option for those who want to be done by 1st September and keep incomes up. I would be thinking the linseed route, with a cover after the spring barley. Could then use clearfield for the OSR / charlock control, although you may have to be a bit canny if you have many rape volunteers in the linseed.

Chalky · Dec 16, 2015

BYDV & opomyza come into our wheat from margins & more so from the steep grass of the wold escarpment. We are next to the Humber & I would always spray given the chance. Cheap solid Mn and low rate lambda product.

Mild anglian areas esp suffolk and the SW are at higher risk than me

SilliamWhale · Dec 16, 2015

Fromebridge said:
What with £140/ha fungicide and similar herbicide bills I'm hearing more growers questioning our obsession with wheat. I was thinking of starting a thread on 'rotations without wheat' just to get ideas but decided against it. Perhaps I should have a rethink.

Well @CORK is saying they are starting to do it much more in Ireland in his area.

Gong Farmer · Dec 16, 2015

My stab would be OSR/w.barley/beans/s.barley/ s.oats or back to OSR if no b'grass

Brisel · Dec 16, 2015

It's a shame we can't do any kind of spreadsheet in TFF or I would have some tables to put up. If I get really bored one day & I work out how to do screen shots properly I might post something up if this idea is a runner.

Brisel · Dec 16, 2015

static said:
First option was the "break them in gently" option for those who want to be done by 1st September and keep incomes up. I would be thinking the linseed route, with a cover after the spring barley. Could then use clearfield for the OSR / charlock control, although you may have to be a bit canny if you have many rape volunteers in the linseed.

You're reliant on non SU chemistry in linseed for Clearfield volunteer control. It's doable with HBN, Basagran or pre em Callisto.

Still Farming · Dec 16, 2015

Wonder how much chemicals will be sold this year with corn prices the way they are looking ???

franklin · Dec 16, 2015

Still Farming said:
Wonder how much chemicals will be sold this year with corn prices the way they are looking ???

About the same as last year. Once the crop is in the ground, there is very little scope to cut costs for a crop I would say.

Brisel said:
You're reliant on non SU chemistry in linseed for Clearfield volunteer control. It's doable with HBN, Basagran or pre em Callisto.

Yup. I would go down the HBN route as the other two are too dear for a cheap crop.

Gong Farmer · Dec 16, 2015

FRAG have published info on the SDHI resistance issue and re-stated the stewardship measures required. The need to mix another partner a.i. 'with similar efficacy against the target pathogen' won't be easy and will push us ever more into prophylactic treatment as eradication will be nigh impossible. So again costs will be laid down as soon as the crop is sown, as static says.

david · Dec 16, 2015

I'm surprised that Septoria resistant to SDHI fungicide hasn't been found in England yet - or may be the results have yet to be released ?

South of Ireland work suggests that metconazole is pretty useful in septoria control. Or that South of Ireland races of septoria are particularly sensitive to metconazole.
@CORK

Gong Farmer · Dec 16, 2015

Much more septoria in Ireland than anywhere in England so resistance pressure is higher there.

david · Dec 16, 2015

But you growers in the West of England, must be under as much pressure with Septoria as Ireland ?

Spraying W Wheat

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