gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Don't think you can make that comment when you have never farmed with or without subs!
getting out of sheep
- Thread starter copse
- Start date
Don't think you can make that comment when you have never farmed with or without subs!
- Location
- Fife
You throw that at me a lot.
Tell me, when in your eyes will I be able to say I have farmed?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Depends a lot on government, I'd expect.
NZ farmers usually do really well for a couple of seasons after a Labour gov't -thankfully not too often - as they totally break the dollar and confidence with their B.S. socialist policies - then create a money vacuum for the next National gov't to try and rectify
But that is a very good point, we will always be an export nation, and the UK will always be an import nation, unless you suddenly lose tens of millions of people, of course!
The problem now is, lack of trading partners outside the EU, because this 'cheap' food has gotten so expensive by world standards.
There is a europe-price and a rest-of-world price, due to long-term protectionism.
It's only 'cheap' at the farm gate, as we all know too well.
Hence the threat of "cheap imports" being only too real, the global market price is far beneath what you enjoy in most sectors.
Cereals are pretty close. But livestock are possibly inflated by 50%?
Our situation here, has us at or below that mark.
But I certainly wouldn't count on the pound being as good as gold ingots in the coming years!
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
When you have your own stock ( or crops ) and own/ rent land to do this.
Running someone else's sheep on tack is not farming in your own right. ( thou nothing wrong with running someone else's sheep on tack btw )
Sorry he was talking about NZ I didn't read it properly ,but the answer is still yes .
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Sure does, eye-watering....
That's probably why all the flash new stuff is contractor owned, and farmers develop systems that aren't so reliant on a lot of kit.
In-wintering can be bloody expensive as we know- looked at straw bedding machines etc and nearly cried.
Most 1500ac sheep+beef units around here would own a good tractor, and old tractor, and a farm ute or quad... perhaps cultivation gear if they're 'old school', not much else! Most other kit is co-owned or contracted, and a low labour low cost operation is the result.
I was buying early season store lambs for £25 and below, little scruffy ones sure, running them behind the other stock and they fetched around the £75 mark late on.
Made me wonder how the hell breeders are making any money selling them at that sort of figure, all were sub £35.
I thought my yearling steers were far too dear at £500, 250kg AA + AA X, time will tell...
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
What you paid for those steers is only just above calve price in the UK.
- Location
- Fife
I've got to build the capital for my own stock some how. Rome wasn't built in a day etc
- Location
- Fife
Really? What do you mean by calf? Meadow Quality sell Angus x baby calf for £150ish.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Both lamb and beef are at an almost record high, at that! $7/kg cw currently for lamb, or very near the £3.50 mark.
Normally a good beef weaner calf is around £200 or so, but huge competition for them so I waited until start of winter to buy.
The joys of being 6 months out, is really one of our biggest advantages (usually)
I manage an away-block for a parsnip farmer and he said today his out-of-season parsnips are hugely more profitable than the in-season crop, they grow parsnip year-round and carrots, beetroot as well in the summer.
His cousin owns (I think he said owns) Te Pari Products, we have some great conversations while drafting fats out.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Are they dairy x?
All beef is on a high here atm
Fri bulls are going $500 @ 120kg, on contract, some people have massive confidence......
I got burnt by contracts so steer clear (no pun intended) and just play the market, much more fun than being locked in IMO
Sorry didn't intend to swing the thread to beef
- Location
- Devon
It's funny isn't it, they have high machinery prices, high grain prices, and high inwintering costs. But I haven't heard them saying 'we can't compete with other countries cos our costs are too high', they design their farming system to minimise reliance on those things.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Must be very difficult to get into the game, I thought here was bad enough, worst season to start out though.
I admire your confidence, I won't ask if you think your goals are achievable in the UK as you obviously believe they are!
My own goals meant climbing the dairy ladder, and investing heavily in stocks bonds currencies etc, it would have taken me forever to build the necessary equity solely through livestock trading.
Now that that's my only card, the returns seem microscopic in comparison!
Hence I can see your view on subs just as well as GUTH and bossfarmer's....
There is no perfect answer.
There are casualties either way!!
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Less labour costs (because I can't put a figure on my worth) my in-wintering costs work out at:
$7500 (feed, bedding, fuel, mower blades)
÷9280 animal grazing days (116×80days)
81c/head/day or 43p
Totally cocked that up
But thought it was a dollar a day or so.
Cheap as chips
Last edited:
- Location
- Devon
Come now, surely you know Guth will pull you up on those figuresLess labour costs (because I can't put a figure on my worth) my in-wintering costs work out at £2.02/hd/day
Silage $.90/day = 9kg× 9.7ckgDM
Woodchips bedding roughly=$2/hd/day
42 tractor hours feeding and scraping in 80 days
21 hours mowing (÷3years worth of silage) so well say 50 hours on the tractor. $426 in fuel.
Plus a set of blades
I thought that was cheap!!!
- Location
- Dumfries & Galloway
Of course it is.
The simple answer to all the subsidy palaver is:
1.Work out the definition of an "active famer"
2.Work out how many there are.
3.Work out how much WestWhinger wants to "pump into the rural economy" via ag subsidy
Divide figure 3 by figure 2. Simple
It might not be enough to buy someone a new combine but so effing what? That isn't the purpose.
Defining an active farmer has been the thorn in the side of the current CAP since 2005...
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
That type of calve isn't worth buying!
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Yes that's why I looked twice!!!Come now, surely you know Guth will pull you up on those figures
Silage bill was $12000, I'll get 3 years out of that
$1450 for 70 cu. metre of chip
$1450 for organic pea straw- not necessary, but makes the muck better fert
$426 in fuel for mowing, scraping and feeding the silage, plus a set of blades for $60, but well ignore them as I've included the mowing of 3 years silage in one year.
Plus a set of socks and jocks, still under $7500.
Depreciation is hard when you own a free tractor, and time is also difficult to put a price on as it's the only thing I have to do over winter- 25 mins per day is not much labour.
I could keep them in longer, and put the per day rate down, but can't afford to let the grass get away or what am I going to do with it? Sell it standing?
No lambs for a while so out they go.But yeah, bugger trying to buy all the gear to do it the professional way, over here.
The key is getting the DM of the silage perfect so that the muck goes into the woodchips not sit on top, the straw goes in right at the end of else it all blocks up and is a disaster area
but then the pigs have a field day rooting it all up for the peas and I get ham on the bone at Christmas without buying in any feed for them.Hard to know which cost goes where in a holistic system though.
Either way I can't eat a slat floor for Christmas dinner
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It's no different with any type of payment though.
Here we have people on invalid benefits, up a ladder cutting hedges/painting
People who claim an unemployment benefit because they don't see much benefit in working a 9 to 5 for an extra few $$p.w.
ACC paying people indefinitely for an injury that doesn't really exist, and they still work just fine if you pay them cash..
If there's free money, people will wear a superman suit to get some
I could claim tax credits for working, while my wife works, and two young boys to care for- but we do alright without putting our hand out. We wanted this!
The only help we get is 20 hours free childcare per week. Can't say no to that.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Yes I know and that is why having tack sheep in is a good idea in your situation
However running someone else's sheep and having your own is like comparing chalk and cheese.