Sustainable Agriculture & Reduced inputs

spin cycle · Mar 30, 2018

Kevtherev said:
Just think of the extra employment it would create.

but if you said 1 man to 100ac arable......then take that area on your model the livestock....how many labour units?....the money just isn't there

most of the estates around my neck of the woods used to have 1000ewes and 200 sucklers ish.....but the last 20 years they've gone....replaced by graziers mostly on stewardship subsidised low input pp

Kevtherev · Mar 30, 2018

spin cycle said:
but if you said 1 man to 100ac arable......then take that area on your model the livestock....how many labour units?....the money just isn't there

most of the estates around my neck of the woods used to have 1000ewes and 200 sucklers ish.....but the last 20 years they've gone....replaced by graziers mostly on stewardship subsidised low input pp

What happens if/when that subsidised pasture payments go?

holwellcourtfarm · Mar 30, 2018

Wait till Pete arrives

It CAN work if folk want it to. Most folk who move away from livestock never return though as they can't stand the time commitment

Treg · Mar 30, 2018

When I was young my parents farm was next door to a flower farm, we would swap land for several years at a time, they would do all the reseeding.
So I guess it depends on what your neighbours farm.

Kevtherev · Mar 30, 2018

As I asked someone the other day how is N fertiliser produced?
And what is the Haber-Bosch process?
They couldn’t answer.

holwellcourtfarm · Mar 30, 2018

I cam see some arable farms being prepared to have livestock contract grazed on pasture break crops in future to raise OM and fertility. Agersens are trialling electronic collars on cattle in Aus in place of electric fencing and its working well so far. The time could commune when fences are optional.

holwellcourtfarm · Mar 30, 2018

Kevtherev said:
As I asked someone the other day how is N fertiliser produced?
And what is the Haber-Bosch process?
They couldn’t answer.

One of the worst things to ever happen to the European environment

spin cycle · Mar 30, 2018

Kevtherev said:
What happens if/when that subsidised pasture payments go?

thats a very good question and one i've been pondering a while now

i'm coming to the end of my stewardship and while the arable options look good the grassland ones don't.....in my own case it might be worth putting arable into stewardship and transfer those chemicals to the pp....which doesn't make sense really environment wise

as to the wider grazier market the loss of stewardship could mean intensification or abandonment and about any scenario in between :scratchhead:

two examples....i can see someone like the wetland trust not being bothered...i don't even know if they claim stewardship now?...on the other hand...the M.O.D around swaffam (i was told) were only interested in applicants who could get the most stewardship money

Kevtherev · Mar 30, 2018

holwellcourtfarm said:
Wait till Pete arrives

It CAN work if folk want it to. Most folk who move away from livestock never return though as they can't stand the time commitment

holwellcourtfarm · Mar 30, 2018

spin cycle said:
thats a very good question and one i've been pondering a while now

i'm coming to the end of my stewardship and while the arable options look good the grassland ones don't.....in my own case it might be worth putting arable into stewardship and transfer those chemicals to the pp....which doesn't make sense really environment wise

as to the wider grazier market the loss of stewardship could mean intensification or abandonment and about any scenario in between

two examples....i can see someone like the wetland trust not being bothered...i don't even know if they claim stewardship now?...on the other hand...the M.O.D around swaffam (i was told) were only interested in applicants who could get the most stewardship money

Unless you are on SDA uplands the environmental options on offer have never really added up for grassland. NELMS must get its act together for grassland or fail miserably IMHO (after all, much more of the UK is grassland than arable)

Kevtherev · Mar 30, 2018

spin cycle said:
thats a very good question and one i've been pondering a while now

i'm coming to the end of my stewardship and while the arable options look good the grassland ones don't.....in my own case it might be worth putting arable into stewardship and transfer those chemicals to the pp....which doesn't make sense really environment wise

as to the wider grazier market the loss of stewardship could mean intensification or abandonment and about any scenario in between

two examples....i can see someone like the wetland trust not being bothered...i don't even know if they claim stewardship now?...on the other hand...the M.O.D around swaffam (i was told) were only interested in applicants who could get the most stewardship money

Depends what stewardship is available tbh.
(On arable)
Unsure what else you could do on MOD land other than graze it?

spin cycle · Mar 30, 2018

Kevtherev said:
Depends what stewardship is available tbh.
(On arable)
Unsure what else you could do on MOD land other than graze it?

well they're facing budget pressures and if you think on the one hand sandy low productivity grassland...on the other...ideal outdoor pig land or with irrigation VERY valuble veg land

holwellcourtfarm · Mar 30, 2018

Kevtherev said:
Depends what stewardship is available tbh.
(On arable)
Unsure what else you could do on MOD land other than graze it?

paintball?

Kevtherev · Mar 30, 2018

spin cycle said:
well they're facing budget pressures and if you think on the one hand sandy low productivity grassland...on the other...ideal outdoor pig land or with irrigation VERY valuble veg land

Veg production
Or carrots could be an option?

spin cycle · Mar 30, 2018

Kevtherev said:
Veg production
Or carrots could be an option?

yes....a big problem could be unexploded munitions though i suppose

.....but good training for sappers followed by couple years of outdoor pigs

.....metal detectors on tractors

SilliamWhale · Mar 30, 2018

I've grown swedes/kale/rape for tack sheep over the years and this year is my last. I just cannot make it pay.

I can't get roots to pay as well as grain. The fencing is expensive and doesn't last. Electric fencing is ok but has its limits in certain areas. The sheep make a hell of a mess and all for less income and similar establishment costs than a no till cereal or break like beans or rape and not so much more work but more commitment for which there isn't a return. And this is for sheep at 70p per week.

Admittedly I could try my hand at buying my own sheep - but then I'd need a transport box, some labour to move them, foot trimming skills etc.

betweenthelines · Mar 30, 2018

"Traditional farming" with a 4 course rotation was around for years & years.

It seems to me that the result of most of the progress over the last 100 years has been make it easier to move away from rotations-chemicals to combat pests and diseases and more mechanisation to "force" the soil into the right condition for crop growth. This has created what I would term as "lazy" farming as shown by lots of TFF threads.

Three prime examples of lazy farming are:

Blackgrass- the usual response being a call for better herbicides so that continuous winter cereal crops can be grown, rather that looking for a "husbandry" based solution

Roundup-no longer just the "last resort" weedkiller it was when introduced, it now seems to be used whenever a field greens up, as an easy option to promote ripening in marginal cereal areas, and as an easy alternative to "traditional husbandry" such as proper cultivation techniques.

Antibiotics-which seem to be routinely used by some farmers whenever an animal is unwell, often without knowing if the animal is suffering from an infection in the first place.

Farm properly, it may not be as easy, but ultimately it'll be more rewarding in every sense.

Kevtherev · Mar 30, 2018

Sustainable Agriculture & Reduced inputs

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