Are you BAME, LBGT, a new entrant from the city, a young farmer or just a bit odd?

Dry Rot · Jun 14, 2018

I once arrange to meet a complete stranger at a livestock auction. He asked, "How will you recocognise me? We've never met!"

The man was a distillery manager, not a farmer. No problem. I picked him out of a couple of hundred farmers quite easily! In fact, he stood out like a sore thumb!

How many here would go to a livestock auction in a dark suit?

Daniel Larn · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel said:
I'd always imagined sailors to be very inclusive towards the lgbt community!!

It's not too bad, but still very white and wealthy.

Daniel · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel Larn said:
It's not too bad, but still very white and wealthy.

You are aware that that was a joke?

Daniel Larn · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel said:
You are aware that that was a joke?

Yes, I got it. Just passing comment.

The stereotype is there for a reason for sure! [emoji1]

unlacedgecko · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel said:
Actually after cereals yesterday maybe the OP has a point.

Wall to wall middle class white boys in check shirts and schoffels made me pine for a bit of diversity and inclusion.....

Why is that a problem?

It's easily explained. Migrants typically live in cities. Subsequent generations are not likely to be attracted to the long antisocial hours and low wages entry level agreement jobs offer.

New entrant cereal farmers face huge capital requirements. These are most likely to be found among white middle class families.

Daniel · Jun 14, 2018

unlacedgecko said:
Why is that a problem?

It's easily explained. Migrants typically live in cities. Subsequent generations are not likely to be attracted to the long antisocial hours and low wages entry level agreement jobs offer.

New entrant cereal farmers face huge capital requirements. These are most likely to be found among white middle class families.

I don't think it is a problem to be honest but it is noticeable and unusual.

I expect if you went to a convention of Indian restauranteurs it would be wall to wall Indians, Sri Lankans and Bangladeshis, with barely a white face to be seen and a total absence of Schoffels.

I don't see that as a problem either and as a massive fan of their work I wouldn't dream of imposing any kind of top down, authoritarian diversity quotas on them.

unlacedgecko · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel said:
I don't think it is a problem to be honest but it is noticeable and unusual.

I expect if you went to a convention of Indian restauranteurs it would be wall to wall Indians, Sri Lankans and Bangladeshis, with barely a white fave to be seen and a total absence of Schoffels.

I don't see that as a problem either and as a massive fan of their work I wouldn't dream of imposing any kind of top down, authoritarian diversity quotas on them.

We have that in common. In fact, I shall be patronising one tonight.

Danllan · Jun 14, 2018

Just noticed this thread; what a load of unnecessary, divisive, multi-culti, touchy feely cobblers.

There are already whole industries surrounding 'minorities' that achieve SFA other than to create, publicise and then reinforce attitudes of 'separateness' - oh, I forgot, they also provide something for 'activists' to claim to do.

This is all entirely unneeded; any fool can get any result from an opinion poll they want and the same goes for pretty much all 'social' research, self-justifying... and nothing more than a slightly sad extrapolation of 'the only gay in the village.'

JP1 · Jun 14, 2018

Danllan said:
Just noticed this thread; what a load of unnecessary, divisive, multi-culti, touchy feely cobblers.

There are already whole industries surrounding 'minorities' that achieve SFA other than to create, publicise and then reinforce attitudes of 'separateness' - oh, I forgot, they also provide something for 'activists' to claim to do.

This is all entirely unneeded; any fool can get any result from an opinion poll they want and the same goes for pretty much all 'social' research, self-justifying... and nothing more than a slightly sad extrapolation of 'the only gay in the village.'

So you’re saying there are no barriers and the countryside should remain the preserve of us white, straight middle class types then

Daniel · Jun 14, 2018

JP1 said:
So you’re saying there are no barriers and the countryside should remain the preserve of us white, straight middle class types then

The barriers are economic, not race based.

JP1 · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel said:
The barriers are economic, not race based.

I think I would probably agree because I am in the same boat BUT I would also think there may be other barriers too (perceived or otherwise). I have a mate (Sikh) who was a time served Rolls Royce apprentice now farming and with a John Bowler egg operation. Funnily enough he dresses in Hacket jackets and check shirts and I bet probably has a Schoffel .................

Interesting thread

unlacedgecko · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel said:
The barriers are economic, not race based.

They're also cultural. In many non white cultures farmers are looked down on as peasants.

I wouldn't get too concerned, once the wider world realises the tax kmplimplicat of owning UK ag land it will get snapped up like the Chinese see doing to NZ and Australia.

Danllan · Jun 14, 2018

JP1 said:
So you’re saying there are no barriers and the countryside should remain the preserve of us white, straight middle class types then

Hmm... if I had written '...there are no barriers and the countryside should remain the preserve of us white, straight middle class types...', you would be spot-on; but, since I didn't, you're wrong again.

It is pretty clear from what I wrote that I think the countryside should be free from the nauseating and pointless 'identity' division that blights so much of this country's urban landscape.

JP1 · Jun 14, 2018

Danllan said:
Hmm... if I had written '...there are no barriers and the countryside should remain the preserve of us white, straight middle class types...', you would be spot-on; but, since I didn't, you're wrong again.

It is pretty clear from what I wrote that I think the countryside should be free from the nauseating and pointless 'identity' division that blights so much of this country's urban landscape.

That's not what the OP is saying either though is it? He's saying how others may feel and researching on that

foobar · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel Larn said:
I've spoken to the chap outside of TFF and he has a genuine motivation for the project, he's not trying to trip people up.

He's really trying to open up the community by providing a gateway, at the moment agriculture is very conservative, very white and very aged.

By creating a space for people who don't fit, and making it more inviting, he's hoping he can offer some people who wouldn't look twice at agriculture to perhaps consider it as a career/lifestyle.

Agricultural folk generally aren't the best at that, so schemes run by people like Mike are no bad thing.

As a female, lesbian, from a non-farming background I think this thread subject is a load of bollox. Giving people all these different labels just creates divisions in society and makes people think they are different, when actually they are not. We are all just people in the end.

If you are interested in farming then you are interested in farming, doesn't matter what colour your scales are or how many heads you have - if you have an interest in farming then you will "fit in". I have yet to meet a farmer that is not passionate about farming, and has not wanted to share that passion with anyone who will stop and listen.

Run a scheme to get young people (well, any aged people actually) interested in farming, yes, that is a good thing, but make it available to everyone, not just a minority. Encourage inclusivity, not exclusivity - that is what this country needs.

Daniel Larn · Jun 14, 2018

foobar said:
As a female, lesbian, from a non-farming background I think this thread subject is a load of bollox. Giving people all these different labels just creates divisions in society and makes people think they are different, when actually they are not. We are all just people in the end.

If you are interested in farming then you are interested in farming, doesn't matter what colour your scales are or how many heads you have - if you have an interest in farming then you will "fit in". I have yet to meet a farmer that is not passionate about farming, and has not wanted to share that passion with anyone who will stop and listen.

Run a scheme to get young people (well, any aged people actually) interested in farming, yes, that is a good thing, but make it available to everyone, not just a minority. Encourage inclusivity, not exclusivity - that is what this country needs.

It kind of does, I agree, but the division is there already.

What this project is trying to do is provide a space, somewhere between the cultural/community groups these people feel a part of already, and the agricultural community.

As someone inside the industry, I have mixed feelings about it. I understand that not all farmers are the same, but I know plenty who are still VERY conservative.

Whether you like it or not, the perception of farmers to most city folk is that they are old, rich and probably racist, sexist and ageist. So offering a more approachable face to get people through the door is no bad thing is it?

CharcoalWally · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel said:
The barriers are economic, not race based.

Absolutely correct . If you have cash, this is literally the easiest industry to enter, regardless of where you started from .

If you don't , it's extremely difficult, which is why a number of us have already said that you need to be ultra driven, not cajoled in by polite suggestion .

CharcoalWally · Jun 14, 2018

Daniel Larn said:
As someone inside the industry, I have mixed feelings about it. I understand that not all farmers are the same, but I know plenty who are still VERY conservative.

Whether you like it or not, the perception of farmers to most city folk is that they are old, rich and probably racist, sexist and ageist. So offering a more approachable face to get people through the door is no bad thing is it?

Society is changing subtly Daniel. It has been all my adult life. I was just discussing this very thing withfamily members last weekend .

Starting off within my own family , I can see how attitudes towards others religions, races and cultures has gone through a sea change in 40 years. Then I look around and I see the same thing mirrored in the community around me.

People learn. They learn by coming up against the thing that frightens them. They learn that it's harmless , and it's not strange, and that it's actually more like themselves than they ever imagined. They learn that it can be worked with and lived with.

Yes , even those conservative types that concern you. Farming may be outwardly conservative - it had always been thus, but don't be fooled into thinking that that automatically equals unwelcoming. I've seen some very conservative people surprise me with their open mindedness to life.

But, this is how Society changes - by personal experience - not by social tinkering from study groups.

It may take time, and it may not seemsatisfactory to you, but stick around for another 20 odd years and then see where we are.

I have faith in Human Nature now .

Red Fred · Jun 14, 2018

It's worth remembering that this supposed "farming community" doesn't really exist, at least round here it doesn't. I don't socialise with any other farmers apart from one who shares a passion for local history and detecting, and we never talk farming when we meet.
All the other folks I know cover a broad spectrum of interests and jobs and backgrounds, yet all consider themselves part of the Local community. If there are any bigoted old farmers still around, they are the ones needing help due to their isolation.
The local horse folks, who make up a large part of the rural population, might sometimes get bitchy amongst themselves

rolleyes

but I have never noticed any racism or sexism due to peoples' colour or sexuality and all sorts of different relationships and arrangements are in evidence.
Maybe effort should be put into convincing those who feel threatened that this sexist,racist community is, in fact, largely an illusion.
This is demonstrated by the reaction one hears to stories about "factory farming" or "pesticide poisoning" in the media. Invariably, local people and friends say "Oh, that's not happening round here, our farms are smaller like Fred's, but it happens somewhere else, ie "The East", on big farms "up country", in Europe or America or anywhere but in our rural corner.

Daniel Larn · Jun 14, 2018

CharcoalWally said:
Society is changing subtly Daniel. It has been all my adult life. I was just discussing this very thing withfamily members last weekend .

Starting off within my own family , I can see how attitudes towards others religions, races and cultures has gone through a sea change in 40 years. Then I look around and I see the same thing mirrored in the community around me.

People learn. They learn by coming up against the thing that frightens them. They learn that it's harmless , and it's not strange, and that it's actually more like themselves than they ever imagined. They learn that it can be worked with and lived with.

Yes , even those conservative types that concern you. Farming may be outwardly conservative - it had always been thus, but don't be fooled into thinking that that automatically equals unwelcoming. I've seen some very conservative people surprise me with their open mindedness to life.

But, this is how Society changes - by personal experience - not by social tinkering from study groups.

It may take time, and it may not seemsatisfactory to you, but stick around for another 20 odd years and then see where we are.

I have faith in Human Nature now .

Oh I agree, it is definitely changing, I've seen it first hand in my grandparents. They were arguably very much the stereotypical farmer I was referring to earlier, but they have changed massively over the last 18years just by having us living on the farm.

Sharing our life experiences with them has been beneficial for both parties, without a doubt.

I know that the community isn't really 'unwelcoming' but it's not me that has the issue, it's people for whom agriculture is alien and the countryside is another world.

I know a few of these people Mike is talking about, and they do perceive it as being impenetrable. It's not that the agricultural community has a problem, but it is perceived as having one, and that is just an unpleasant fact that we have to accept.

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