- Location
- Bay of Plenty NZ
Walter P...Brexit..Farmers...Turkeys
- Thread starter Smith31
- Start date
- Location
- Bay of Plenty NZ
They are very unlikely to nationalise land, more probably they will attach business rates to farms and why not? Every other business has to pay rates why should farmers be exempt?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
The state likely won't sell out "their" industry in the way farmers have done - by way of accepting "the way things are" and taking the kings shilling, and donating produce to the supermarkets for what they can get.
And farmers have absolutely no unity, which also counts against the realisation of income for the investment made.
In short the current systems are designed to keep you in business, not to prosper, CAP never was designed to aid the prosperity of the British farmer. Nor all the regulations - in the unlikely event of land nationalisation all this could be undone in a month, if it so suited them; so could farmers, but never will have the unity or capital as they have invested their wealth in an inflated asset and there are 4 farming where one could be.
They have kept you farming inefficiently for good reason, it is testament and credit to all of you to keep going under the circumstances, in my opinion.
Farming appears non-viable.
Hilly
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders.
Muslim people coming to live in uk in droves made them vote brexit and thats the truth alot dont want to face but there it is.
Hilly
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders.
They have already said it wont change.
Grassman
Member
- Location
- Derbyshire
There is a some truth in that. A lot of rural people won't see it as an issue. But live near a big city and it's a different story.
London is rapidly depending into one of the world hotshots for street crime. Many of the perpetrators are immigrants involved in gang culture. People see that more immigration is more crime rightly or wrongly.
But from what I hear the majority of out voters just wanted sovereignty staying in the uk. They don't want to be part of the "United states of Europe" with Germany in charge.
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I concur with the sentiment. The shameful use by Farage and of a poster with Syrian refugees and the threat of Turkey joining the EU was the worst kind of jingoistic false propaganda feeding frenzy I have seen for a while. Hope his and Banks mates in the Kremlin are satisfied. Hope you are all satisfied. Hey ho.
only in the leg thoughmy trouble is....who ever wins the 'revolution' will shoot me cos i'm a rebellious oik
- Location
- Limousin
We do in France. I assume NZ does also?
- Location
- Limousin, France
Just like Russia years ago. Most food produced on family allotment's. Just the image of Clive on his Belarus is frigthting.
- Location
- Limousin
Apparently a large proportion of Muslims voted for Brexit in the belief that it will enable more of their families and relatives the right to come to the UK. Because the UK will have to relax it's immigration controls.
Walterp
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
English farmers made themselves and their industry a laughing-stock by displaying 'vote leave' posters on their roadside fields, because the urban voter is perfectly aware that the CAP underwrites large parts of UK agriculture - turkeys voting for Christmas, and all that.
Why did they do it? Over-confidence.
I suspect many of 'em didn't even think that 'leave' was in with a chance, and would have thought twice if they'd known how powerful populism can be. (A lesson that the losers from the last general European war know perfectly well, but the UK has grasped imperfectly).
And now we're in the hole?
Denis Healey's advice was 'when in a hole, stop digging' - the First Law of Holes. But the English cannot stop digging - the Scots, the Northern Irish and the Welsh are protesting but the English political classes are on 'ignore'.
How will that play out? Not hard to predict, right?
The messy, and entirely avoidable, outcome will introduce a socialist government. How will that play out? Again, not hard to predict.
I'm a big fan of reversion to the mean - eventually, we all regain ambient room temperature. This applies to countries, too - the UK can despise prosperity just as its farmers despise the CAP, but the cost of so doing is to get poorer.
Why did they do it? Over-confidence.
I suspect many of 'em didn't even think that 'leave' was in with a chance, and would have thought twice if they'd known how powerful populism can be. (A lesson that the losers from the last general European war know perfectly well, but the UK has grasped imperfectly).
And now we're in the hole?
Denis Healey's advice was 'when in a hole, stop digging' - the First Law of Holes. But the English cannot stop digging - the Scots, the Northern Irish and the Welsh are protesting but the English political classes are on 'ignore'.
How will that play out? Not hard to predict, right?
The messy, and entirely avoidable, outcome will introduce a socialist government. How will that play out? Again, not hard to predict.
I'm a big fan of reversion to the mean - eventually, we all regain ambient room temperature. This applies to countries, too - the UK can despise prosperity just as its farmers despise the CAP, but the cost of so doing is to get poorer.
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I live quite near the ABP abbatoir near Ellesmere. I notice they have put up big billboards in the local towns and villages , advertising for staff, encouraging school leavers to earn while they learn .
That’s because the east Europeans are already departing and will lead to the slaughtering capacity in the uk, shrinking and inevitably being replaced by imports unless brits start to work in this industry .
That’s because the east Europeans are already departing and will lead to the slaughtering capacity in the uk, shrinking and inevitably being replaced by imports unless brits start to work in this industry .
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
@Walterp - I say that the farmer who grows expensive food to then largely give it away for someone else to add the value - always has an ambient temperature of "poor" no matter how it is dressed up by the brown paper envelope?
Surely, the sooner the silent suffering of farming is shown to be the logical end-point of blindly following several broken models.... the sooner something more worthwhile for all can be resurrected?
The global food model is badly, badly broken, as is the industrial monoculture model, the transport model, and the economic model of unsustainable capital growth via stupid mechanisms... is delaying the inevitable wise?
Surely, the sooner the silent suffering of farming is shown to be the logical end-point of blindly following several broken models.... the sooner something more worthwhile for all can be resurrected?
The global food model is badly, badly broken, as is the industrial monoculture model, the transport model, and the economic model of unsustainable capital growth via stupid mechanisms... is delaying the inevitable wise?
I would concur ----land owners that voted leave thought that the state would still bail them out
I am not sure they were so wrong
you asked them all have youI would concur ----land owners that voted leave thought that the state would still bail them out
I am not sure they were so wrong
There are Welsh farmers on here that have said they voted leave some from the west of wales why do you think they done that ?
Walterp
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
I haven't quoted all of Kiwi Pete's points, although I agree with his observations - the models which govern our lives are flawed.
But they always were - that was the whole point of inventing the Garden of Eden.
And I disagree, very strongly, with the oft-stated view on TFF that the way to improve our lot is to 'smash the system' - the quote is heard today from Brexit supporters, but was used originally by that well-known populist, Hermann Goering, in a Press interview in the 1930's when describing NASDAP's aims.
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Grassman
Member
- Location
- Derbyshire
Perhaps they were thinking more about the countries well being rather than their own personal interest .
Walterp
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
Fair question.
I have met two types of Welsh farmers who voted 'leave' (maybe there are more, I don't get out much):
1. dairy farmers who hope to impoverish their beef and sheep keeping neighbours, so that they can acquire their farms at distress values. They are thinking rationally, albeit selfishly;
2. older farmers, generally beef and sheep keepers, who think that the EU is a 'dictatorship' - they definitely need to get out more, and read the Daily Mail less, because that doesn't reflect reality.
It's hard to say what a decent reaction is to such people - the latter are well-intentioned but illogical, whilst the former are logical but intend ill.
Should I admire the predator? Or the prey?
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