- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
If you're underwater then most people will be f#cked! 
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
https://www.pharocattle.com/blog/how-big-is-big-enough?
Quite an interesting blog, I thought I'd plonk it here for interest
Quite an interesting blog, I thought I'd plonk it here for interest
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
My wee heifers aren't going to set any liveweight records.
They look good to me. What weights will they be?
the comments are interesting, ok to say whats best but the only person to take notice of is your buyer, if they don't want it right or wrong then there is no sale or at least only a crap sale from your point of view and no profit
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
I have also noticed that "auto correct" doesn't seem to like "soil" & is always trying to turn it into "soul"
Either that or in my case, clumsy fingers
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
What do you think of Kit ?
Fenwick
Member
- Location
- Bretagne France
So I am slowly catching up (on page 248).
Though I'd try and see if I could upload a pic of my farm and the plan I had for the fencing and water. Hope this works.
ORANGE =Corridor
YELLOW = Perimiter Fence.
RED = Semi-permenant fencing
BLUE = Waterline
Temporary fencing between the red lines.
Kiwitech fencing and water tubs throughout.
Planning on daily moves (with perhaps 2-3 day moves in 2 or 3 paddocks which are difficult to temporary fence).
2 groups. 1 cow, calf and Bulls + 1 Heifers
I really wanted a corridor as It would mean I could bring cattle or calves back for loading and also be able to get to wherever needs grazing as the growth varies greatly across the farm (north slopes, south slopes, sandy soil, silty soil, wetlands etc etc). Which I feel is better than just going clockwise. - The idea being more Hollistic than simply rotational.
Main problem I find with the system is calculating forage. The place isn't flat. The paddocks are not square. I am not sure if I should be trying to work out the exact needs of the cattle with plate meters and gps etc. Or just get a feel for it, I'm pretty sure they will tell me if I bodge up and give them too little. But i'll still need a base to work from.
I'd really appreciate any critisism and help. I've got to include the financing of this in my budget with the bank and the agricultural board.
Voila voilu....
Though I'd try and see if I could upload a pic of my farm and the plan I had for the fencing and water. Hope this works.
ORANGE =Corridor
YELLOW = Perimiter Fence.
RED = Semi-permenant fencing
BLUE = Waterline
Temporary fencing between the red lines.
Kiwitech fencing and water tubs throughout.
Planning on daily moves (with perhaps 2-3 day moves in 2 or 3 paddocks which are difficult to temporary fence).
2 groups. 1 cow, calf and Bulls + 1 Heifers
I really wanted a corridor as It would mean I could bring cattle or calves back for loading and also be able to get to wherever needs grazing as the growth varies greatly across the farm (north slopes, south slopes, sandy soil, silty soil, wetlands etc etc). Which I feel is better than just going clockwise. - The idea being more Hollistic than simply rotational.
Main problem I find with the system is calculating forage. The place isn't flat. The paddocks are not square. I am not sure if I should be trying to work out the exact needs of the cattle with plate meters and gps etc. Or just get a feel for it, I'm pretty sure they will tell me if I bodge up and give them too little. But i'll still need a base to work from.
I'd really appreciate any critisism and help. I've got to include the financing of this in my budget with the bank and the agricultural board.
Voila voilu....
I would agree with you , it's interesting & I'm not going to say whether it's right or wrong but would say there seems to be a very blinkered way of measuring efficiency!
If I look at my own herd the oldest cows (10-12 yrs old )are the biggest ( approx 800kg ) they've also given me the most output ( as in highest value animal sold + amount of off spring sold ),
So IF a large cow lives longer ( because she may not have given half her body weight to her calf every year ) but gives you 3 or 4 extra calves over her life time , which is more efficient?
- Location
- Ardrossan Ayrshire
I would agree with you , it's interesting & I'm not going to say whether it's right or wrong but would say there seems to be a very blinkered way of measuring efficiency!
If I look at my own herd the oldest cows (10-12 yrs old )are the biggest ( approx 800kg ) they've also given me the most output ( as in highest value animal sold + amount of off spring sold ),
So IF a large cow lives longer ( because she may not have given half her body weight to her calf every year ) but gives you 3 or 4 extra calves over her life time , which is more efficient?
That would depend on cost to change the cow. The big cow will have a bigger cull price but that probably won't offset the 20% (?) ish higher cow maintenance costs per kg of calf.
It seems to me it's the same workings out that make a Holstein cow the most efficient dairy cow, where as we know a cow that milks more in her life time is more efficient.
So higher cull price, lasts longer , more output , gets back in calf , less risk of buying unhealthy replacements , the list could go on , measuring efficiency just by calf growth % of cow weight is a VERY poor way of measuring cow efficiency & isn't looking at it holistically at all.
I have 2 different types of Beef Shorthorns here medium size traditional type & larger more modern type both are pedigree, the larger have smaller calves by almost 10kgs but grow quicker, finish heavier! Cow families with in a breed are very important & that's where efficiencies can be found.
Can't see the picture for some reason. Is it just me?So I am slowly catching up (on page 248).
Though I'd try and see if I could upload a pic of my farm and the plan I had for the fencing and water. Hope this works.
ORANGE =Corridor
YELLOW = Perimiter Fence.
RED = Semi-permenant fencing
BLUE = Waterline
Temporary fencing between the red lines.
Kiwitech fencing and water tubs throughout.
Planning on daily moves (with perhaps 2-3 day moves in 2 or 3 paddocks which are difficult to temporary fence).
2 groups. 1 cow, calf and Bulls + 1 Heifers
I really wanted a corridor as It would mean I could bring cattle or calves back for loading and also be able to get to wherever needs grazing as the growth varies greatly across the farm (north slopes, south slopes, sandy soil, silty soil, wetlands etc etc). Which I feel is better than just going clockwise. - The idea being more Hollistic than simply rotational.
Main problem I find with the system is calculating forage. The place isn't flat. The paddocks are not square. I am not sure if I should be trying to work out the exact needs of the cattle with plate meters and gps etc. Or just get a feel for it, I'm pretty sure they will tell me if I bodge up and give them too little. But i'll still need a base to work from.
I'd really appreciate any critisism and help. I've got to include the financing of this in my budget with the bank and the agricultural board.
Voila voilu....
- Location
- Ardrossan Ayrshire
I get your point , but I think that you are needing to separate out the small cows with big fast growing hungry genetics (in other words cows calved young which limits mature size) from the slow lazy gits.
Both my types of cow calf at 2 yrs the larger ones being larger at that age & have a larger mature weight , their steers are 50kgs heavier at 18months ( & usually grade better ) which at this week's price is £200 / per head extra so did the larger cow cost me £130 /yr in forage ? ( we'd have to measure intakes to see which cow converted her forage better ) Doubt it , if she did, her extra calves in a life time still surely would bring her out on top?
I love both my types of cow & both are precious to me so just pointing out measuring just one thing does not make one cow more efficient than another.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
What is your thinking in keeping two different types? Do you sell pedigree stock and want to appeal to more buyers?
My Poynings are a very rare tradition dairy Shorthorn family & my Tanzy family although a old family contains more modern blood lines .
I breed them slightly differently for fun
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
If you finish your own animals I think the smaller type is better as families prefer smaller rib and t- bone steaks. Commercial finishers are a different story and I agree you have to sell what they want to buy. I only have one large cow and she is up grazing firstand finishes last while the others are already relaxing and chewing their cud. She is 11 and like @Treg ‘s cows has given me more and larger calves than the others( although she slipped her calf this year , so unfortunately that’s it for her). She has trouble with her feet and with our lousy winters her last two calves ,one a 19 month old steer and a 7 mos. in calf heifer , both slipped , fell and were butchered/ died calving . I would say that is the ultimate way to judge your stock- do they fit your system? Much as I prefer these big cows they struggle here.I have pretended to myself that everything was fine but really to be profitable you have to be honest with yourself, with what you’re seeing. I often believe what I want to believe- not too clever.
- Location
- Derbyshire
I don't think that your picture/plan has uploaded.So I am slowly catching up (on page 248).
Though I'd try and see if I could upload a pic of my farm and the plan I had for the fencing and water. Hope this works.
ORANGE =Corridor
YELLOW = Perimiter Fence.
RED = Semi-permenant fencing
BLUE = Waterline
Temporary fencing between the red lines.
Kiwitech fencing and water tubs throughout.
Planning on daily moves (with perhaps 2-3 day moves in 2 or 3 paddocks which are difficult to temporary fence).
2 groups. 1 cow, calf and Bulls + 1 Heifers
I really wanted a corridor as It would mean I could bring cattle or calves back for loading and also be able to get to wherever needs grazing as the growth varies greatly across the farm (north slopes, south slopes, sandy soil, silty soil, wetlands etc etc). Which I feel is better than just going clockwise. - The idea being more Hollistic than simply rotational.
Main problem I find with the system is calculating forage. The place isn't flat. The paddocks are not square. I am not sure if I should be trying to work out the exact needs of the cattle with plate meters and gps etc. Or just get a feel for it, I'm pretty sure they will tell me if I bodge up and give them too little. But i'll still need a base to work from.
I'd really appreciate any critisism and help. I've got to include the financing of this in my budget with the bank and the agricultural board.
Voila voilu....
However, I get your message. Mapping the paddock sizes can be done easily on line, we use the magic map tool, it's free and simple.
I do think it would be a good idea to plate meter weekly. Whilst some will say it's not necessary, it does give you a good reference of available forage. Combine this with what the stock are telling you and it will help build your confidence to make grazing plans and decisions
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
Does anyone still calve at 3 years? I did for years, worrying that my grass/ hay ( no silage ) system required it. I have switched to 2 years but have trouble getting them in calf for round two.