Weaving GD user thread

Two Tone · Apr 11, 2020

jack6480 said:
Can anyone share any advice on getting slots to close nicely please, this is spring I have rolled at an angle to really close them up which has worked really well. Anything that’s clay drilled over the winter when slightly wet has baked now and opened up like a big crack. Can I see what finish you are getting drilling
Thankyou

I am wondering about this too.
Simon Weaving kindly did a demonstration for us last Tuesday on a 30 acres field of failed rape in to spring oats.
I was very impressed especially as this field is 3 soil types , ranging from very heavy to less heavy to medium.

Simon advised me to roll it, which I tried at right angles to the way it was drilled. But this did absolutely nothing, so I gave up. If it starts to open up the slot, I might have another attempt.

I have been in contact with @Warnesworth for a while on the whole subject of DD and he kindly turned up to see how well the drill coped. As did my neighbour who we share farm on a labour and machinery sharing basis (yes we did keep 2 metres apart!)

I am very impressed at how this drill opens up a slot, drops the seed in and the the wheel closes the slot.

This wheel must exert more pressure on the flap of soil closing it up than any roller can do subsequently. However, @Warnesworth rightly says that in these dry and sunny conditions, the slot will probably open up.

As in all farming, timing will of the utmost priority to get this right. So far, those slots haven’t opened up.

Here are some more pictures of the drilling progress

.

I’ll post more photos as the crop emerges.This wasn’t the ideal place or time to try it. But I am in no doubt that the system has it’s place and that despite arguments as to whether we should be using a tine drill or a disc drill, this angled disc drill is as near perfect for me on this farm as can be.

I particularly like the little things such as the easy way to remove the drop pipes from the discs for cleaning and the fact that I am looking for absolute minimum soil disturbance for Blackgrass control, whilst at the the same time making sure the seed is placed into a soil medium it can grow in.

I have to admit that my original idea at looking at this whole concept was for gaining maximum advantage as to the ELMS scheme. However, I am extremely doubtful that this will now take place without major modification due to what is happening in the world re Coronavirus. IMO, this will affect us for 2 years before any sort of normality returns. It has already been hinted that the planned reduction in BPS payment amounts are now on hold for at least a year.

Nonetheless, ELMS or not, this type of crop establishment technique is going to have a place an many farms.

Badshot · Apr 11, 2020

jack6480 said:
looks very similar to mine I drill early feb.
How have you got your spacers set up on your depth wheels?

As it came, I've not altered them.
Didn't even think about it tbh

Badshot · Apr 11, 2020

Two Tone said:
I am wondering about this too.
Simon Weaving kindly did a demonstration for us last Tuesday on a 30 acres field of failed rape in to spring oats.
I was very impressed especially as this field is 3 soil types , ranging from very heavy to less heavy to medium.
View attachment 869805
Simon advised me to roll it, which I tried at right angles to the way it was drilled. But this did absolutely nothing, so I gave up. If it starts to open up the slot, I might have another attempt.

I have been in contact with @Warnesworth for a while on the whole subject of DD and he kindly turned up to see how well he drill coped. As did my neighbour who we share farm on a labour and machinery sharing basis (yes we did keep 2 metres apart!)
View attachment 869806

I am very impressed at how this drill opens up a slot, drops the seed in and the the wheel closes the slot.
View attachment 869810
This wheel must exert more pressure on the flap of soil closing it up than any roller can do subsequently. However, @Warnesworth rightly says that in these dry and sunny conditions, the slot will probably open up.

As in all farming, timing will of the utmost priority to get this right. So far, those slots haven’t opened up.

Here are some more pictures of the drilling progress
View attachment 869807
View attachment 869808
View attachment 869809.

I’ll post more photos as the crop emerges.This wasn’t the ideal place or time to try it. But I am in no doubt that the system has it’s place and that despite arguments as to whether we should be using a tine drill or a disc drill, this angled disc drill is as near perfect for me on this farm as can be.

I particularly like the little things such as the easy way to remove the drop pipes from the discs for cleaning and the fact that I am looking for absolute minimum soil disturbance for Blackgrass control, whilst at the the same time making sure the seed is placed into a soil medium it can grow in.

I have to admit that my original idea at looking at this whole concept was for gaining maximum advantage as to the ELMS scheme. However, I am extremely doubtful that this will now take place without major modification due to what is happening in the world re Coronavirus. IMO, this will affect us for 2 years before any sort of normality returns. It has already been hinted that the planned reduction in BPS payment amounts are now on hold for at least a year.

Nonetheless, ELMS or not, this type of crop establishment technique is going to have a place an many farms.

I tried the rolls to close the bean slots, done 50 yards and checked, little different. Stuck the paddles down hard, bingo slots shut, or filled with tilth.
I'll get a pic shortly I'm going past to collect a trailer.

jack6480 · Apr 11, 2020

Two Tone said:
I am wondering about this too.
Simon Weaving kindly did a demonstration for us last Tuesday on a 30 acres field of failed rape in to spring oats.
I was very impressed especially as this field is 3 soil types , ranging from very heavy to less heavy to medium.
View attachment 869805
Simon advised me to roll it, which I tried at right angles to the way it was drilled. But this did absolutely nothing, so I gave up. If it starts to open up the slot, I might have another attempt.

I have been in contact with @Warnesworth for a while on the whole subject of DD and he kindly turned up to see how well the drill coped. As did my neighbour who we share farm on a labour and machinery sharing basis (yes we did keep 2 metres apart!)
View attachment 869806

I am very impressed at how this drill opens up a slot, drops the seed in and the the wheel closes the slot.
View attachment 869810
This wheel must exert more pressure on the flap of soil closing it up than any roller can do subsequently. However, @Warnesworth rightly says that in these dry and sunny conditions, the slot will probably open up.

As in all farming, timing will of the utmost priority to get this right. So far, those slots haven’t opened up.

Here are some more pictures of the drilling progress
View attachment 869807
View attachment 869808
View attachment 869809.

I’ll post more photos as the crop emerges.This wasn’t the ideal place or time to try it. But I am in no doubt that the system has it’s place and that despite arguments as to whether we should be using a tine drill or a disc drill, this angled disc drill is as near perfect for me on this farm as can be.

I particularly like the little things such as the easy way to remove the drop pipes from the discs for cleaning and the fact that I am looking for absolute minimum soil disturbance for Blackgrass control, whilst at the the same time making sure the seed is placed into a soil medium it can grow in.

I have to admit that my original idea at looking at this whole concept was for gaining maximum advantage as to the ELMS scheme. However, I am extremely doubtful that this will now take place without major modification due to what is happening in the world re Coronavirus. IMO, this will affect us for 2 years before any sort of normality returns. It has already been hinted that the planned reduction in BPS payment amounts are now on hold for at least a year.

Nonetheless, ELMS or not, this type of crop establishment technique is going to have a place an many farms.

great post,

iv managed to close slots up nicely in the autumn When the grounds been dry for a while. But when it’s wet and dries so fast it just shrinks along the lines. I think drilling in the dry with dry weather after drilling is probably the best way to go.

I hope with cover crops and lots of biomass back on the surface I should be able to build a bit of tilth in future years. When you get good slot closure the slugs aren’t a problem and everything is happy days. ??

jack6480 · Apr 11, 2020

Badshot said:
As it came, I've not altered them.
Didn't even think about it tbh

would you be able to post a picture of your spacers, my drill was a second hand machine and I think they’ve been altered from standard

Brisel · Apr 11, 2020

jack6480 said:
Can anyone share any advice on getting slots to close nicely please, this is spring I have rolled at an angle to really close them up which has worked really well. Anything that’s clay drilled over the winter when slightly wet has baked now and opened up like a big crack. Can I see what finish you are getting drilling
Thankyou

@Feldspar had trouble with his slot closure too after his 750A. He stubble raked at an angle & even ran a power harrow lightly over the top of some. If the seed has a shoot coming up I'd leave it or you'll be risking terminal damage. There's a nice humid microclimate down there & you'll have good fissuring in the soil underneath. An inch of rain and the slots will close up anyway.

I thought that part of the benefit of the design was slot opening was supposed to be reduced with an angled disc?

Two Tone · Apr 11, 2020

Thinking further along how the system works, I’m looking for some advice on what, if any extras are needed.
When Simon and diver, Glen did their demo for us the other day, we didn’t drill tramlines because it was easy to see where they had been in the failed rape.
Assuming that it is fitted as standard, do the drills actually need a tramlining system?
The same goes for pre-emergence marker - are they actually needed?
Or do most people try to move their tramlines to a different angle each year, to maybe help level the fields?
I note that width markers are not fitted as standard and that many now use sat-nav steering.
On a 3 metre machine, could you manage without markers, perhaps with the use of an Egnos signal Trimble type system that still requires the driver to actually steer the tractor (perhaps with sight correction as the tractor wheels will be so close to where the last outside drill coulter was during that last run)?

Even though @Brisel and @SilliamWhale don’t use a GD, I’d like their opinions on these questions too please.

jack6480 · Apr 11, 2020

Brisel said:
@Feldspar had trouble with his slot closure too after his 750A. He stubble raked at an angle & even ran a power harrow lightly over the top of some. If the seed has a shoot coming up I'd leave it or you'll be risking terminal damage. There's a nice humid microclimate down there & you'll have good fissuring in the soil underneath. An inch of rain and the slots will close up anyway.

I thought that part of the benefit of the design was slot opening was supposed to be reduced with an angled disc?

The seed is well in under soil but the slot doesnt stick back together at the top.
I can’t see how any other disc drill would be different.
does this have anything to do with mag and calcium ratios?

Brisel · Apr 11, 2020

jack6480 said:
The seed is well in under soil but the slot doesnt stick back together at the top.
I can’t see how any other disc drill would be different.
does this have anything to do with mag and calcium ratios?

Slots are open - it's dry and there are no slugs. Slots close - nowhere for slugs to work and no problem. The devil is the transition between the two.

I can't help on the Ca:Mg ratios. My soil is chalk loam over pure chalk so no amount of Mag is ever going to sort that out! @Warnesworth is your man for that.

jack6480 · Apr 11, 2020

Oh there’s slugs my friend, but yes closed slots is the best form of slug control ??

Two Tone · Apr 11, 2020

Brisel said:
@Feldspar had trouble with his slot closure too after his 750A. He stubble raked at an angle & even ran a power harrow lightly over the top of some. If the seed has a shoot coming up I'd leave it or you'll be risking terminal damage. There's a nice humid microclimate down there & you'll have good fissuring in the soil underneath. An inch of rain and the slots will close up anyway.

I thought that part of the benefit of the design was slot opening was supposed to be reduced with an angled disc?

One of the, if not the major advantages I see with a GD is the angled discs:
1. Undoubtedly better soil penetration.
2. The wheel/roller squashes ALL the soil back over the seed much better that any vertical disc could do.
3. Far less chance of soil shrinkage exposing seed to the surface.
4. Much reduced “hair-pinning” of any straw or trash.
5. Ultimate minimum soil disturbance for weed (especially Blackgrass) control.

There is much talk with DDer’s of the need to have both a disc drill and a tine drill for DD users.
IMO opinion, the GD is the only drill that gets around this requirement.
Also IMO, this is the only DD drill that will cope in all soil types.

Badshot · Apr 11, 2020

Unrolled in the corner

First beans showing today

Paddled out in the middle of the field.

Unfortunately we had immense easterly winds following rolling and that blew most of the straw away.

jack6480 · Apr 11, 2020

Badshot said:
View attachment 869824
Unrolled in the corner

View attachment 869825
First beans showing today
View attachment 869827
Paddled out in the middle of the field.

Unfortunately we had immense easterly winds following rolling and that blew most of the straw away.

my feb drilled wheat, hopefully it comes to something

Brisel · Apr 11, 2020

I'll try and answer what I can here @Two Tone I'll put my text into italics.

Thinking further along how the system works, I’m looking for some advice on what, if any extras are needed.
When Simon and driver, Glen did their demo for us the other day, we didn’t drill tramlines because it was easy to see where they had been in the failed rape. Same here when they did a demo for me last spring. The tramlines did grow nicely so we had to rely on GPS to find them later on when there was a good gap between passes & we got to the field at dusk to spray it.
Assuming that it is fitted as standard, do the drills actually need a tramlining system? No. I like the idea of drilling on an angle - you're spreading wheelings though in time the soil will self structure to the point at which it carries machinery well enough that CTF systems become largely irrelevant. You've already controlled your traffic by reducing it
The same goes for pre-emergence marker - are they actually needed? No. Same reason as above. If you were going contracting, the customer might want them. My Claydon does a bit of outside work as it has attracted a bit of interest locally.
Or do most people try to move their tramlines to a different angle each year, to maybe help level the fields? I'd rather not - I'd like to think my existing ones are in the most efficient place already. No till won't level ground, especially with a very low disturbance disc. I don't think the no till purists will hang you from a tree if you did a light cultivation to level out wheelings occasionally, especially if you're using a drill like this rotationally or in conjunction with tillage occasionally
I note that width markers are not fitted as standard and that many now use sat-nav steering. I don't use bout markers any more, even on headlands thanks to autosteer.
On a 3 metre machine, could you manage without markers, perhaps with the use of an Egnos signal Trimble type system that still requires the driver to actually steer the tractor (perhaps with sight correction as the tractor wheels will be so close to where the last outside drill coulter was during that last run)? This is one for the GPS forum really. You're a good pilot so if you had to leave a field because of rain etc you'd be able to match up the last bout if you had a cheap or free correction signal that will certainly drift within a couple of hours. It would be a bit different with a 12m monster drill where you're squinting to see the outside coulters in the far distance.

Even though @Brisel and @SilliamWhale don’t use a GD, I’d like their opinions on these questions too please.

Hope that helps

Brisel · Apr 11, 2020

jack6480 said:
Oh there’s slugs my friend, but yes closed slots is the best form of slug control ??

Have you got the kit to get a dose on quickly if it rained? Perhaps test bait the heavier spots for now with layers mash under a stone or bit of wood?

I've got a couple of fields of very stony ground that have had a slug problem for 3 years since they were last osr, even in last year's spring barley following a cover crop and chopped straw. I haven't applied a dose because it's been so dry since but I have pellets in stock in case that changes. The crop of spring oats after another cover crop are just emerging. If it rains I'll be walking those regularly.

Badshot · Apr 11, 2020

jack6480 said:
my feb drilled wheat, hopefully it comes to something
View attachment 869829

I can see rows, reckon it'll be ok.
As a friend said to me , it'll be a match for spring wheat at least, probably better, and I haven't paid a fortune for seed.

Badshot · Apr 11, 2020

jack6480 said:
would you be able to post a picture of your spacers, my drill was a second hand machine and I think they’ve been altered from standard

Brisel · Apr 11, 2020

Two Tone said:
One of the, if not the major advantages I see with a GD is the angled discs:
1. Undoubtedly better soil penetration.
2. The wheel/roller squashes ALL the soil back over the seed much better that any vertical disc could do.
3. Far less chance of soil shrinkage exposing seed to the surface.
4. Much reduced “hair-pinning” of any straw or trash.
5. Ultimate minimum soil disturbance for weed (especially Blackgrass) control.

There is much talk with DDer’s of the need to have both a disc drill and a tine drill for DD users.
IMO opinion, the GD is the only drill that gets around this requirement.
Also IMO, this is the only DD drill that will cope in all soil types.

I disagree. A disc will be always pushing up out of the ground. A tine will be pulling itself in. Not an issue here because you've got plenty of weight and a good design. It's no coincidence that you can add tonnes of ballast to drills like the Horsch Avatar and Cross Slot for this reason. Add in stones & you have another tendency to ride up out of the ground.
Agreed, though needs careful setup to allow for conditions. With hindsight what I've seen in recent threads like this more weight should have been put on closing wheels but we were all working into a thin dry crust over a soggy pudding when most of this was sown. Squeeze wet soil with excess press wheel weight and you'd really damage establishment.
Yes, I like the design of the GD and Boss openers because of this.
Not so sure but I haven't got enough personal experience of this to comment properly. A worn disc with a blunt edge will be even more likely to hair pin. A tine will sweep this away.
I agree

I disagree with your last 2 points. Have you tried other disc and tine drills? There's a very good reason the JD 750A is the world's number 1 drill opener and most of the competition copy it. Ask @Warnesworth why he prefers a tine drill! I'd like to have a tine drill and a disc drill in the shed but to get started I think I'll start with a tine, much as I will curse it's inability to sow direct into badly chopped barley straw.

Should Groundswell go ahead, that would be a very good place to directly compare drill design. I'm sure you could wear a disguise so we wouldn't know you're there, though everyone is welcome & it's a great place for open discussion. I didn't see a single mankini last year unless @SilliamWhale was wearing it under his normal clothes

Two Tone · Apr 11, 2020

Brisel said:
I disagree. A disc will be always pushing up out of the ground. A tine will be pulling itself in. Not an issue here because you've got plenty of weight and a good design. It's no coincidence that you can add tonnes of ballast to drills like the Horsch Avatar and Cross Slot for this reason. Add in stones & you have another tendency to ride up out of the ground.

Agreed, though needs careful setup to allow for conditions. With hindsight what I've seen in recent threads like this more weight should have been put on closing wheels but we were all working into a thin dry crust over a soggy pudding when most of this was sown. Squeeze wet soil with excess press wheel weight and you'd really damage establishment.

Yes, I like the design of the GD and Boss openers because of this.

Not so sure but I haven't got enough personal experience of this to comment properly. A worn disc with a blunt edge will be even more likely to hair pin. A tine will sweep this away.

I agree

I disagree with your last 2 points. Have you tried other disc and tine drills? There's a very good reason the JD 750A is the world's number 1 drill opener and most of the competition copy it. Ask @Warnesworth why he prefers a tine drill! I'd like to have a tine drill and a disc drill in the shed but to get started I think I'll start with a tine, much as I will curse it's inability to sow direct into badly chopped barley straw.

Should Groundswell go ahead, that would be a very good place to directly compare drill design. I'm sure you could wear a disguise so we wouldn't know you're there, though everyone is welcome & it's a great place for open discussion. I didn't see a single mankini last year unless @SilliamWhale was wearing it under his normal clothes

Just one thing to add about point 1:
Why is it when you use an axe to chop a tree down, that you use it at an angle, rather than at 90 degrees to the truck?
Penetration.

Thanks for all your advice, nonetheless.

Two Tone · Apr 11, 2020

Brisel said:
I'll try and answer what I can here @Two Tone I'll put my text into italics.

Thinking further along how the system works, I’m looking for some advice on what, if any extras are needed.
When Simon and driver, Glen did their demo for us the other day, we didn’t drill tramlines because it was easy to see where they had been in the failed rape. Same here when they did a demo for me last spring. The tramlines did grow nicely so we had to rely on GPS to find them later on when there was a good gap between passes & we got to the field at dusk to spray it.
Assuming that it is fitted as standard, do the drills actually need a tramlining system? No. I like the idea of drilling on an angle - you're spreading wheelings though in time the soil will self structure to the point at which it carries machinery well enough that CTF systems become largely irrelevant. You've already controlled your traffic by reducing it
The same goes for pre-emergence marker - are they actually needed? No. Same reason as above. If you were going contracting, the customer might want them. My Claydon does a bit of outside work as it has attracted a bit of interest locally.
Or do most people try to move their tramlines to a different angle each year, to maybe help level the fields? I'd rather not - I'd like to think my existing ones are in the most efficient place already. No till won't level ground, especially with a very low disturbance disc. I don't think the no till purists will hang you from a tree if you did a light cultivation to level out wheelings occasionally, especially if you're using a drill like this rotationally or in conjunction with tillage occasionally
I note that width markers are not fitted as standard and that many now use sat-nav steering. I don't use bout markers any more, even on headlands thanks to autosteer.
On a 3 metre machine, could you manage without markers, perhaps with the use of an Egnos signal Trimble type system that still requires the driver to actually steer the tractor (perhaps with sight correction as the tractor wheels will be so close to where the last outside drill coulter was during that last run)? This is one for the GPS forum really. You're a good pilot so if you had to leave a field because of rain etc you'd be able to match up the last bout if you had a cheap or free correction signal that will certainly drift within a couple of hours. It would be a bit different with a 12m monster drill where you're squinting to see the outside coulters in the far distance.

Even though @Brisel and @SilliamWhale don’t use a GD, I’d like their opinions on these questions too please.

Hope that helps

Thank you. It most certainly does help.

Sometimes we wonder why we ask such stupid questions such as:
Or do most people try to move their tramlines to a different angle each year, to maybe help level the fields?

Please excuse such utter ignorance from a complete DD novice!
It is obvious that a DD system cannot level ground, isn't it?

Thank god my ploughing is (Uhem- maybe was) of a good enough standard that my fields are pretty level anyway!
Tin hat on!!!

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