All things Dairy

pine_guy · May 20, 2020

Rossymons said:
How's it all going?

Generally fine. Still feel like I’m fire fighting everyday but think we are making progress. An BVD PI calf discovered last week means the imminent start to service of the 63 currently in milk is delayed while the vaccine takes hold.
means I have more time to shop for a bull. Have my eye on a Viking red who’s got a full brother in one of the Big semen firms. Just worried he might be a bit to milky stature for the type of cow I’m aiming for. But would like to try him on these cows and if ok, thought he would cross well onto the fleck heifers next spring.
Oh and the rant was because the relief milker has either dumped antibiotics in the tank, or missed milking a whole side..... I think it’s the later ?‍

farmboy · May 20, 2020

pine_guy said:
One of them mornings when you remember why staff are staff and not running their own farm ?
Frustration vent over. Enjoy your day ?

We’re not all useless

Headless chicken · May 20, 2020

pine_guy said:
Generally fine. Still feel like I’m fire fighting everyday but think we are making progress. An BVD PI calf discovered last week means the imminent start to service of the 63 currently in milk is delayed while the vaccine takes hold.
means I have more time to shop for a bull. Have my eye on a Viking red who’s got a full brother in one of the Big semen firms. Just worried he might be a bit to milky stature for the type of cow I’m aiming for. But would like to try him on these cows and if ok, thought he would cross well onto the fleck heifers next spring.
Oh and the rant was because the relief milker has either dumped antibiotics in the tank, or missed milking a whole side..... I think it’s the later ?‍

be extremely cautious with Scandinavia bulls or fleck bulls. They are seriously evil.

pine_guy · May 20, 2020

Headless chicken said:
be extremely cautious with Scandinavia bulls or fleck bulls. They are seriously evil.

I’ve read that on here, never trust any bull

Sid · May 20, 2020

Headless chicken said:
be extremely cautious with Scandinavia bulls or fleck bulls. They are seriously evil.

pine_guy said:
I’ve read that on here, never trust any bull

@happycows had one I think?

Sid · May 20, 2020

happycows said:
Had a altercation with my young 15 month old bull today. Foot trimmer was here and the bull gets very wound up at any change and as he's not working at the moment just running with I/c heifers and seems very testosterone fuelled.
I went in to pull out to a dry cow I'd trimmed couple weeks ago and wanted rechecking. He had me over and was having a go before I knew it. Luckily foot trimmer dragged me out by my feet and apart from some bruises and stiff I'm fine. He doesn't seem to respect a stick but does when he's haltered with ring clip in.
Guess I need to get building a bull pen.
Any other advice on handling him. I'm not a bull expert and had a lucky escape of a education today.
And sorry I can't afford to kill him.....

happycows · May 20, 2020

Sid said:
@happycows had one I think?

Ha yes. I saw there were some for sale at auction a month or so ago....... they really should come with a health warning stamped on them.
Cracking bull that threw some lovely daughters though ??‍

farmboy · May 20, 2020

I’ve got to be honest I’m on my second fleck bull and have had no problems whatsoever. Obviously you shouldn’t trust any bull before someone says it but neither of them have been any trouble. Did have trouble with a home bred crossbred bull this year, Got too playful and chased a farm worker, he was on the lorry that week

happycows · May 20, 2020

farmboy said:
I’ve got to be honest I’m on my second fleck bull and have had no problems whatsoever. Obviously you shouldn’t trust any bull before someone says it but neither of them have been any trouble. Did have trouble with a home bred crossbred bull this year, Got too playful and chased a farm worker, he was on the lorry that week

He was no trouble as long as you kept a gate between you. ?

The Agrarian · May 20, 2020

I've got two cross young home bred montx bulls at the moment. They grew up in the same pen. One is running with the milk cows in cubicles, the other tailing up heifers on the rough hill.

One is harder to work with than the other. The one with heifers makes a bit of noise, but moves along with the heifers when changing fields, and is ok so far.

The one with the cows is a pain at times. When he hears you in the shed he usually comes looking for bother. We have bars and gates we can use to divide up the area he is in, so that we can have a safe working space away from him. But if he's in your way, he is very hard to move. Gets this starey look in his eye and becomes fixed to the spot. A normal stick (blue alkethene) is completely pointless. He tried to have a go at me a couple of days ago. Brushed my leg with his skull, though I was working on the other side of a non return bar from him at a robot, so I only had to take one step back out of his reach. The only thing that makes him reconsider his attitude (at least for the time being) is a length of heavy gauge 2" pipe, as it happens what our non return bars are made from. He ran with a bunch at the back end, and moving them became a pain as he came out onto the road and then just stood and eyeballed me for ten minutes while cars began to arrive. Awkward. The last few times I took the handler to change them so I could move him with the bucket if necessary. Didn't need to, he got the hint.

Headless chicken · May 20, 2020

The Agrarian said:
I've got two cross young home bred montx bulls at the moment. They grew up in the same pen. One is running with the milk cows in cubicles, the other tailing up heifers on the rough hill.

One is harder to work with than the other. The one with heifers makes a bit of noise, but moves along with the heifers when changing fields, and is ok so far.

The one with the cows is a pain at times. When he hears you in the shed he usually comes looking for bother. We have bars and gates we can use to divide up the area he is in, so that we can have a safe working space away from him. But if he's in your way, he is very hard to move. Gets this starey look in his eye and becomes fixed to the spot. A normal stick (blue alkethene) is completely pointless. He tried to have a go at me a couple of days ago. Brushed my leg with his skull, though I was working on the other side of a non return bar from him at a robot, so I only had to take one step back out of his reach. The only thing that makes him reconsider his attitude (at least for the time being) is a length of heavy gauge 2" pipe, as it happens what our non return bars are made from. They just bounce off his skull, but the clunk must be enough to bring him to earth. I am too afraid to let him out with heifers. He ran with a bunch at the back end, and moving them became a pain as he came out onto the road and then just stood and eyeballed me for ten minutes while cars began to arrive. Awkward! The last few times I took the handler to change them so I could move him with the bucket if necessary. Didn't need to, he got the hint.

my criteria for a dairy bull is that he moves away if I go near him. If he stops doing that he’s gone.

som farmer · May 20, 2020

The Agrarian said:
I've got two cross young home bred montx bulls at the moment. They grew up in the same pen. One is running with the milk cows in cubicles, the other tailing up heifers on the rough hill.

One is harder to work with than the other. The one with heifers makes a bit of noise, but moves along with the heifers when changing fields, and is ok so far.

The one with the cows is a pain at times. When he hears you in the shed he usually comes looking for bother. We have bars and gates we can use to divide up the area he is in, so that we can have a safe working space away from him. But if he's in your way, he is very hard to move. Gets this starey look in his eye and becomes fixed to the spot. A normal stick (blue alkethene) is completely pointless. He tried to have a go at me a couple of days ago. Brushed my leg with his skull, though I was working on the other side of a non return bar from him at a robot, so I only had to take one step back out of his reach. The only thing that makes him reconsider his attitude (at least for the time being) is a length of heavy gauge 2" pipe, as it happens what our non return bars are made from. They just bounce off his skull, but the clunk must be enough to bring him to earth. I am too afraid to let him out with heifers. He ran with a bunch at the back end, and moving them became a pain as he came out onto the road and then just stood and eyeballed me for ten minutes while cars began to arrive. Awkward! The last few times I took the handler to change them so I could move him with the bucket if necessary. Didn't need to, he got the hint.

that bull should either be in a secure pen, or gone, he will have somebody, one day, then how would you feel ? By putting this post up, you have admitted he is dangerous, that is likely to invalidate your insurance, if you were unlucky enough to get some one hurt, bull pen fine.
There was a thread on here, way back, that said bucket reared bulls, were likely to be more dangerous that suckled on a cow. Got me thinking, as we like to buy ped bull calves and rear, on the assumption, they would be quieter !!!
I think there is a lot of truth in that, we have 2 young jersey bull, one reared from 7 days old, the other bought at 8 months old, now 14/15 months old. The one we reared, straight up to the gate bawling, the other stays back, is it a case of knowing us, he wants to make sure we know, he's the boss, or trying to be ? I really don't know, I do know I prefer to have a bull a bit arsey, as it makes you 'aware', and its usually the quiet ones that turn !!
And whatever you do, make certain no one, with a mobile, sees you hit it with an iron bar, or else you could end up in court, or all the hassle, of RSPCA, or min vets.

som farmer · May 20, 2020

Headless chicken said:
my criteria for a dairy bull is that he moves away if I go near him. If he stops doing that he’s gone.

spot on, and never trust them.

dinderleat · May 20, 2020

There’s this marvellous thing called artificial insemination. It’s where you can use the best bulls in the world to use on your cows and the little buggers are kept in a Flask so they don’t try and kill you and you can have as many different bulls as you like.

The Agrarian · May 20, 2020

som farmer said:
that bull should either be in a secure pen, or gone, he will have somebody, one day, then how would you feel ? By putting this post up, you have admitted he is dangerous, that is likely to invalidate your insurance, if you were unlucky enough to get some one hurt, bull pen fine.
There was a thread on here, way back, that said bucket reared bulls, were likely to be more dangerous that suckled on a cow. Got me thinking, as we like to buy ped bull calves and rear, on the assumption, they would be quieter !!!
I think there is a lot of truth in that, we have 2 young jersey bull, one reared from 7 days old, the other bought at 8 months old, now 14/15 months old. The one we reared, straight up to the gate bawling, the other stays back, is it a case of knowing us, he wants to make sure we know, he's the boss, or trying to be ? I really don't know, I do know I prefer to have a bull a bit arsey, as it makes you 'aware', and its usually the quiet ones that turn !!
And whatever you do, make certain no one, with a mobile, sees you hit it with an iron bar, or else you could end up in court, or all the hassle, of RSPCA, or min vets.

Some of those points are fair enough. There's elevated risk with him. But there is also elevated risk with every bull. You can't trust any of them. There is also a much higher elevated risk with calved sucklers. Insurance cannot dispute that.

Regarding the piping. I have never abused, nor intend to abuse any of my cattle. I only use necessary proportionate force, which for most of the time is nothing more than a tap or a poke with plastic pipe to let them know I'm talking to them. For this guy, the proportionate rule still applies. But for our safety, the absolute level of that proportionate force may be higher than for most cattle on the farm. Proportionate and only when absolutely necessary.

farmboy · May 20, 2020

happycows said:
He was no trouble as long as you kept a gate between you. ?

I just don’t think people can say Fleckvieh bulls are any more aggressive than other breeds, either that or I’ve just been lucky? Some cows can be aggressive when they’ve calved but most are fine

farmboy · May 20, 2020

Chilling out

farmboy · May 20, 2020

Few new calves

vantage · May 20, 2020

View from the hill bringing the cows in, @Spudley .

Dead Rabbits · May 20, 2020

The Agrarian said:
I've got two cross young home bred montx bulls at the moment. They grew up in the same pen. One is running with the milk cows in cubicles, the other tailing up heifers on the rough hill.

One is harder to work with than the other. The one with heifers makes a bit of noise, but moves along with the heifers when changing fields, and is ok so far.

The one with the cows is a pain at times. When he hears you in the shed he usually comes looking for bother. We have bars and gates we can use to divide up the area he is in, so that we can have a safe working space away from him. But if he's in your way, he is very hard to move. Gets this starey look in his eye and becomes fixed to the spot. A normal stick (blue alkethene) is completely pointless. He tried to have a go at me a couple of days ago. Brushed my leg with his skull, though I was working on the other side of a non return bar from him at a robot, so I only had to take one step back out of his reach. The only thing that makes him reconsider his attitude (at least for the time being) is a length of heavy gauge 2" pipe, as it happens what our non return bars are made from. He ran with a bunch at the back end, and moving them became a pain as he came out onto the road and then just stood and eyeballed me for ten minutes while cars began to arrive. Awkward. The last few times I took the handler to change them so I could move him with the bucket if necessary. Didn't need to, he got the hint.

I like the ease of management bulls allow, and we have a lot of them, but I wouldn’t keep what you have.

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