How much to pay an arable farmer!

Dog Bowl · Jun 17, 2020

Neighbouring arable farmer has approached me about renting some land from him to grow Italian ryegrass instead of him growing OSR as a break. Would be about 100ac which will help me enormously as I am always tight for grass.

He would zero till the grass in behind spring barley at his cost. I would provide and pay for the seed and from there on in provide and apply all the fert and inputs required at my cost. All fine.

The grass will only be in for 1 year before being pulled out for wheat. So, in theory id vacate the land by September. Would like to think I'd get an autumn cut after establishing (if its a kind autumn), then 3 cuts the following year.

Whats this worth? I really want 2 years but he's keen on one to keep his rotation. I'd have to lean towards a westerwolds mix for the rapid and short term growth.

Anyone have a similar agreement and care to share experiences?!

Zippy768 · Jun 17, 2020

A cut THIS autumn?

Dog Bowl · Jun 17, 2020

Well I have the spring barley straw, so if I clear it quickly he could get it established by say 3rd week August at latest. Id say by end of October there would be a decent bite there, and we are on dry brash so not going to sink out of sight.

Werzle · Jun 17, 2020

I would be amazed if you get a cut worth doing this year and would base any payment this year on tonnage or bales but next year i would say £150/ac

7610 super q · Jun 17, 2020

Qman · Jun 17, 2020

If you want a break crop with grass you need it in for 2 years, 1 ain't enough especially if you take off 3/4 crops of grass.

Dog Bowl · Jun 17, 2020

Qman said:
If you want a break crop with grass you need it in for 2 years, 1 ain't enough especially if you take off 3/4 crops of grass.

I said exactly this to him. Remember I'm just the peasant livestock farmer, he's the arable man. He wants one year, thats it.

Boysground · Jun 17, 2020

I know somebody who does this, they pay by the ton putting everything over the arable farms weighbridge, if it was me I would prefer this as it accounts for things like a drought before second cut.
Personally I would go with a decent italian mix, most of my own silage is italian which is in rotation with grass and wheat. tell the farmer he will get much much better blackgrass control if it is in for the second year. Just be ready to see the barley in the ley and dont let it seed for the later cuts.

Bg

bitwrx · Jun 17, 2020

Dog Bowl said:
Neighbouring arable farmer has approached me about renting some land from him to grow Italian ryegrass instead of him growing OSR as a break. Would be about 100ac which will help me enormously as I am always tight for grass.

He would zero till the grass in behind spring barley at his cost. I would provide and pay for the seed and from there on in provide and apply all the fert and inputs required at my cost. All fine.

The grass will only be in for 1 year before being pulled out for wheat. So, in theory id vacate the land by September. Would like to think I'd get an autumn cut after establishing (if its a kind autumn), then 3 cuts the following year.

Whats this worth? I really want 2 years but he's keen on one to keep his rotation. I'd have to lean towards a westerwolds mix for the rapid and short term growth.

Anyone have a similar agreement and care to share experiences?!

How much money are you going to make from the extra forage?

ollie989898 · Jun 17, 2020

Ok, so if he really insists that it's only for one year then drill in 18kg/acre of westerwolds. Otherwise I would be putting in an IRG mixture with at least 4 kg of perun in it.

2 years would be better from a break point of view in my view. You can also swing the deal by putting your slurry back to it which would improve the resulting wheat etc behind it.

You will probably need to get sheep on it at some point in the autumn to stop it being swamped by barley volunteers.

You need the grass by the sounds of it so I would suggest being prepared to pay good money for the arrangement to encourage it continuing would be the aim.

DRC · Jun 17, 2020

Werzle said:
I would be amazed if you get a cut worth doing this year and would base any payment this year on tonnage or bales but next year i would say £150/ac

£150 acre and he’s paying for the seed and then the fertiliser.

ollie989898 · Jun 17, 2020

silverfox said:
£150 acre and he’s paying for the seed and then the fertiliser.

No no, if the livestock farmer buys the seed he is tied in, and so is the arable man. Been down this lane before...

Derrick Hughes · Jun 17, 2020

£80/acre . It's going to cost you a fair bit and he will benefit so not just a straight rental. Certainly no more than that could be less

HarryB97 · Jun 17, 2020

As it would be very beneficial to your business and help you out I would initially start with one year and hopefully after a year or two your neighbour will see the benefits and that you do a good job etc and then you could negotiate for longer and get something better in like Lucerne and he would benefit more to. As he approached you first you have the upper hand but I would say 4 cuts a year is optomistic on brash especially with ryegrass, a 1 year red clover and festulolium type ley would be more resilient? £80-100 would be my limit, if it was for 3 years and I could grow a better ley on it then I would nudge that up towards £130-150 if I had to.

2tractors · Jun 17, 2020

I would be thinking about what was his OSR margin and offer a little bit more given he is envisaging an improvement in the following crop?

Derrick Hughes · Jun 17, 2020

Is not the arable farmer offering the land as he sees it will improve the land no end .its not cheap to put seed in either . I dont think the arable farmer is looking at it as a straight money making plan .but I could be wrong
As an aside I would be happy to quote you on seed at any time

Werzle · Jun 17, 2020

silverfox said:
£150 acre and he’s paying for the seed and then the fertiliser.

Good many dairy farmers would pay £200/acre for ground that would produce three quality cuts ?‍

michael N123 · Jun 17, 2020

What about a year with shite weather and you can’t get that last cut lifted on time

ollie989898 · Jun 17, 2020

michael N123 said:
What about a year with shite weather and you can’t get that last cut lifted on time

I think both parties need to be on the same page with this. If the last cut couldn't be lifted, or the second cut was very light because of drought, it would surely average out over the course of several years anyway. I wouldn't bother weighing it either, makes no difference to the arable farmer how much grass gets carted away. Keep it simple, too many mercenary fudgeers out there as it is, love thy neighbour and all that.

Dog Bowl · Jun 17, 2020

HarryB97 said:
As it would be very beneficial to your business and help you out I would initially start with one year and hopefully after a year or two your neighbour will see the benefits and that you do a good job etc and then you could negotiate for longer and get something better in like Lucerne and he would benefit more to. As he approached you first you have the upper hand but I would say 4 cuts a year is optomistic on brash especially with ryegrass, a 1 year red clover and festulolium type ley would be more resilient? £80-100 would be my limit, if it was for 3 years and I could grow a better ley on it then I would nudge that up towards £130-150 if I had to.

Exactly what I'm thinking. First year is a means to get my foot in the door. Hopefully will lead to more.

I already get 5 multi cuts of silage on my brash - i don't tend to big myself up much but I can grow good grass, even on brash. I am looking at this arrangement to provide all my grass silage - i can then extend my grazing on the home farm and look to grow more high protein crops to supplement where needed.

How much to pay an arable farmer!

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Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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