All things Dairy

som farmer · Apr 7, 2021

we got told to put a cupboard in the dairy, for 'bits', by the dairy inspector, she wanted it out next visit, till l told her, it was her 'want', it was a smart cupboard, concrete block sides, and galvanise doors, she moaned every visit after that. But l would sooner have someone with practical knowledge, and a helpful manner, than some of the so called RT inspectors.
We are lucky, re dairy, with an outside tank, a lot of the bullsh1t doesn't apply, but l definitely think, dairy manufacturers should be banned from having 'flat' tops, our ice builder seems to 'attract' stuff.

Jdunn55 · Apr 7, 2021

Sid said:
How can you sell anything as RT if you haven't been inspected?

@Jdunn55 I found the FSA pre start up inspection very helpful with the new unit.

Did they fail you on not having a vet review of AB usage and herd health review?
How can you review something you haven't done yet!
In the dairy you can't have anything that isn't for use within the dairy room, you can wash calf buckets out but they have to be removed when washed.
It's usually these silly things that catch us all out, like a no smoking sign when no one smokes!

Luckily she was reasonable about that, some stuff was my own fault as I just havent had time but other things really annoyed me eg: brand new medicine cabinet that was locked and contained all my medicines, but had it in the dairy which wasnt allowed, I thought that should be the most sensible place as the dairy can be locked up over night meaning its doubly secure but apparently not

Cows 'n grass · Apr 7, 2021

Sid said:
How can you sell anything as RT if you haven't been inspected?

@Jdunn55 I found the FSA pre start up inspection very helpful with the new unit.

Did they fail you on not having a vet review of AB usage and herd health review?
How can you review something you haven't done yet!
In the dairy you can't have anything that isn't for use within the dairy room, you can wash calf buckets out but they have to be removed when washed.
It's usually these silly things that catch us all out, like a no smoking sign when no one smokes!

I helpfully pointed out at my last inspection that smoking in the workplace is illegal so shouldn't need to be signed. They didn't seem to care.

Homesy · Apr 7, 2021

RT is a game we all have to play. Just nod your head, apologise and suck it up. Arguing just makes life more difficult. They could fail us all on certain things if they were so minded. I had my last audit via whatsapp through my phone. A young girl from Bristol way. She couldn't have been nicer. Just the luck of the draw.

Jdunn55 · Apr 7, 2021

Sid said:
How can you sell anything as RT if you haven't been inspected?

@Jdunn55 I found the FSA pre start up inspection very helpful with the new unit.

Did they fail you on not having a vet review of AB usage and herd health review?
How can you review something you haven't done yet!
In the dairy you can't have anything that isn't for use within the dairy room, you can wash calf buckets out but they have to be removed when washed.
It's usually these silly things that catch us all out, like a no smoking sign when no one smokes!

Should also add if I had my time again I probably would do a pre inspection, but then again it would have been another day gone doing that rather than getting stuff done for my actual inspection... in conclusion 2 weeks is absolutely not long enough...

Jdunn55 · Apr 7, 2021

Homesy said:
RT is a game we all have to play. Just nod your head, apologise and suck it up. Arguing just makes life more difficult. They could fail us all on certain things if they were so minded. I had my last audit via whatsapp through my phone. A young girl from Bristol way. She couldn't have been nicer. Just the luck of the draw.

Exactly, nothing against my inspector, even she was agreeing with me about 90% of things, would be more than happy to have her back again in a months time to follow up if necessary

Sid · Apr 7, 2021

Homesy said:
RT is a game we all have to play. Just nod your head, apologise and suck it up. Arguing just makes life more difficult. They could fail us all on certain things if they were so minded. I had my last audit via whatsapp through my phone. A young girl from Bristol way. She couldn't have been nicer. Just the luck of the draw.

I had a non compliance removed as I checked the standards and it was incorrect.

Sid · Apr 7, 2021

Cows 'n grass said:
I helpfully pointed out at my last inspection that smoking in the workplace is illegal so shouldn't need to be signed. They didn't seem to care.

Because its a tick box exercise.
Perhaps need a sign about taking drugs as well?

Buford T. Justice · Apr 7, 2021

Kernow Star said:
Just remember to record when you wormed it though been caught out there before

We have to have records for worming the cats as well. I'm not too sure how well a feral tabby would take to having a tablet shoved down their mouth so we have to use a dose that can be given in their milk

som farmer · Apr 7, 2021

to be fair, other than that one idiotic women, never really had to much wrong, we had a random full farm compliance inspection, that did worry me, 48 hrs not a lot of notice, first thing the inspector said i was unlucky to have been drawn 'out the hat' as a very high % were following 'complaints', absolutely fine, all records correct, fields, cropped as stated, hedges, ditches, buffer zones correct, only major problem, we had 4 pigs, inspector wasn't 'licenced' for pigs, someone had to come up from exeter to see them. What it did show us, if we were compliant on that, we cannot be to bad at any inspection/audit, that was an all day job, and actually learn't a lot, especially trading standards, who like us to think they can do a lot more, than they are allowed to !
All we have to do now, is get rid of our EA idiot, he's asking for figures for usage, which his office say are not actually stated, plus loads of other figures he's already had, he's just fixated on the lagoon size, which we don't actually need, to comply. No idea of how to lose him, l don't think we will, from 'other' places/firms/farmers, he is causing mass upheaval, all round, has to much on his plate, loses figures, or use them incorrectly, nervous breakdown, best hope, awful thing to say, but it's probably on the cards, he won't let go of anything, on any farm, he finds a fault, that in reality is every farm.

vantage · Apr 7, 2021

som farmer said:
No idea of how to lose him,

If you know the right people it could probably be arranged!

som farmer · Apr 7, 2021

vantage said:
If you know the right people it could probably be arranged!

didn't think l ought to tell, walk out and see if it's deeper, than you are tall, beginning to think he has complicated his work load, with 'on going' problems, he can't remember each place, and getting himself muddled up. This latest bit, he was chasing us for a reply, after we had sent an e'mail with it on, his boss had it, because he's copied it, but no apology, no response!

Princess Pooper · Apr 7, 2021

TheRanger said:
As in calf feeding buckets? All ours are washed in the dairy and stored on a shelf in the dairy, never been pulled up for it.

Blimey that's a favourite fail and is also a Food Standards Agency favourite. Only a few things allowed in the dairy and calf buckets is not one of them!.

Princess Pooper · Apr 7, 2021

Jdunn55 said:
I dont think so, she was really reasonable and was trying to warn me of things I need to do for next time, either way it hasn't worked I'm too far in now

Although you do have a requirement to have a full herd register (not just say it's CTS online) with full ear tags, dam etc, (this could be part of a herd management programme) your actual calving records do not need this, as long as you are able to identify which calf came from which cow.

Tonka · Apr 7, 2021

Jdunn55 said:
Completely agree, next time I will be ready for all the stuff that I wasnt this time, just think only giving me 2 weeks to get moved in, settled, not to mention actually getting routine work done and then prepped for red tractor on top was a bit unfair
Personally think it should have been a free pre-inspection to say what I will need to do in preparation for my actual audit in 6 weeks time, or soemthing along those lines, that way they can atleast check everything is in ok order and my cows arent on deaths door etc

If your buyer wants you to be assured, I'm surprised they didn't give you a heads up as to what is or not required at an inspection....

O'Reilly · Apr 7, 2021

Princess Pooper said:
Blimey that's a favourite fail and is also a Food Standards Agency favourite. Only a few things allowed in the dairy and calf buckets is not one of them!.

I'm sure the buckets are there in case you need to scrub some milking equipment in a bucket.
As an aside, do many people have a separate room for calf feeding stuff? I know far too much calf equipment finds its way into the dairy, to get farmed out in time for inspections, yet in many ways it is practical to keep such equipment close to the parlour and dairy.

Jdunn55 · Apr 7, 2021

Tonka said:
If your buyer wants you to be assured, I'm surprised they didn't give you a heads up as to what is or not required at an inspection....

I read through all the red tractor list but dodnt have time to get some of it done, other things like 'the parlour needs to be xlean' are fairly open to interpretation eg: how clean is clean? I now know for next time it needs to be cleaner than what I thought would have been fine. I didnt think about rust on the stanchions of the parlour but apparently they all need stripping and repainting etc

ilovemilk90 · Apr 7, 2021

im not going to be popular for saying this, and i am just pointing out some truths not painting everyone with the same brush, but as an industry when it comes to inspections and record keeping we have it pretty easy. Think of what everyone else up the foodchain has to do to be able to just keep the place running. Sign at every corner, immaculate work floors and production lines, endless amounts of signing in and signing out, labelling and procedures that they have to go through multiple time a year, machinery that has to be updated every few years and maintained spotless.
And now think of us as the primary source of where food comes from how we can get away with shabby paperwork, slightly made up application records for muck and fertiliser, dust and cobwebs building up everywhere, medicine cabinets hardly holding together, bottles of penicillin left about having used the same needle 10 times over. if something get contaminated at the source that is severe and should be regulated as such. I am afraid I don' sympathise with anyone that thinks that a bit of extra paperwork and tidiness is unreasonable.

Princess Pooper · Apr 7, 2021

ilovemilk90 said:
im not going to be popular for saying this, and i am just pointing out some truths not painting everyone with the same brush, but as an industry when it comes to inspections and record keeping we have it pretty easy. Think of what everyone else up the foodchain has to do to be able to just keep the place running. Sign at every corner, immaculate work floors and production lines, endless amounts of signing in and signing out, labelling and procedures that they have to go through multiple time a year, machinery that has to be updated every few years and maintained spotless.
And now think of us as the primary source of where food comes from how we can get away with shabby paperwork, slightly made up application records for muck and fertiliser, dust and cobwebs building up everywhere, medicine cabinets hardly holding together, bottles of penicillin left about having used the same needle 10 times over. if something get contaminated at the source that is severe and should be regulated as such. I am afraid I don' sympathise with anyone that thinks that a bit of extra paperwork and tidiness is unreasonable.

BUT .... they are not having to deal with living animals day after day, in all weathers, so if an afternoon is lost to a difficult calving, followed by a vet visit for a caesar, then the planned couple of hours on the paperwork doesn't get done, because you still have to turn around and milk and feed calves etc in the evening. That is one of the main arguments - we, as responsible farmers, always prioritise our livestock, but that might mean the cobwebs don't get dusted - are we so wrong? We are dealing with muck and mud every day so it is a lot more difficult to keep clean than a sterile food factory where everyone comes in already spotless clothes and can change into equally spotless overalls. Plus most (not all) businesses further up the chain tend to be larger businesses, so there are delegated managers/admin each responsible for their area. On many farms ONE person or probably two, are doing EVERYTHING including all the admin. So if you are ill, (God forbid you have a chronic illness like me) or have to take an elderly parent or sick child to hospital, then everything slips.

Our milk buyer made a snipey comment once about general farm tidiness. We were just at the end of a 6 week period when my husband was signed off sick as he had almost cut his finger off. So half our time was taken up with taking him to hospital appointments as he was not allowed to drive, and I was doing all of his jobs, including milking, on top of my own. Effectively we were operating with 50% of the workforce. I asked the milk buyer how the dairy would cope if 50% of the workforce was off sick and he said they would reduce the work as much as possible and if everyone picked up 5% more then they could cope. He wasn't very forthcoming when I asked him which part of running a dairy farm we were supposed to cut back on and pointed out that I had increased my workload by about 80%.

frederick · Apr 7, 2021

Princess Pooper said:
BUT .... they are not having to deal with living animals day after day, in all weathers, so if an afternoon is lost to a difficult calving, followed by a vet visit for a caesar, then the planned couple of hours on the paperwork doesn't get done, because you still have to turn around and milk and feed calves etc in the evening. That is one of the main arguments - we, as responsible farmers, always prioritise our livestock, but that might mean the cobwebs don't get dusted - are we so wrong? We are dealing with muck and mud every day so it is a lot more difficult to keep clean than a sterile food factory where everyone comes in already spotless clothes and can change into equally spotless overalls. Plus most (not all) businesses further up the chain tend to be larger businesses, so there are delegated managers/admin each responsible for their area. On many farms ONE person or probably two, are doing EVERYTHING including all the admin. So if you are ill, (God forbid you have a chronic illness like me) or have to take an elderly parent or sick child to hospital, then everything slips.

Our milk buyer made a snipey comment once about general farm tidiness. We were just at the end of a 6 week period when my husband was signed off sick as he had almost cut his finger off. So half our time was taken up with taking him to hospital appointments as he was not allowed to drive, and I was doing all of his jobs, including milking, on top of my own. Effectively we were operating with 50% of the workforce. I asked the milk buyer how the dairy would cope if 50% of the workforce was off sick and he said they would reduce the work as much as possible and if everyone picked up 5% more then they could cope. He wasn't very forthcoming when I asked him which part of running a dairy farm we were supposed to cut back on and pointed out that I had increased my workload by about 80%.

If a Tesco store didn't have enough staff to sell food safely it would shut until it could. I know we like to think ourselves different but if we don't have enough manpower to do the job properly we need to do the job differently until we can.

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