violent dog walker

The dog walker is not violent, he's verbally aggressive-typical bully/coward behaviour

I suspect that if the OP and a mate confronted him calmly but responded to raised voices, swearing etc. in a like manner, they'd never see him again.

Film the meeting to show that you were responding to, not initiating the aggression

Tell the police that you saw his dogs destroy a lapwings nest and give them his car reg. number. If that doesn't work tell Packham, he'll soon get fed up when that lot set about him on FB.

I've said it on here before; fencing off footpaths works. It is not cheap but good value if you hate confrontation.

As the footpath became overgrown walkers would deviate into the crop. by fencing it off it still becomes overgrown, they now have to fight their way through nettles, thistles, bramble, blackthorn etc.

Hilly said:

The island is getting crowded.

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The main problem is the countryside is now a free amusement park.

Deereone said:

I've said it on here before; fencing off footpaths works. It is not cheap but good value if you hate confrontation.

As the footpath became overgrown walkers would deviate into the crop. by fencing it off it still becomes overgrown, they now have to fight their way through nettles, thistles, bramble, blackthorn etc.

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Unfortunately, Pembs NP have a team of blokes with strimmers, and a hotline for folks to call if a path dares to get overgrown. No money for refuse collection, nor filling in potholes in roads though......

@7610 super q
That's not a problem. If our path was not fenced off the path would not get strimmed as the walkers would detour through our crops.

The primary issue is the owner of the dogs, not so much the dogs themselves. But if the dogs are worrying livestock, then you have a legal defence (not legal right) to shoot the dogs.

Link: Sheep worrying law UK (crombiewilkinson.co.uk)

Contrary to popular belief, a farmer does not have a legal right to shoot a dog that is worrying their livestock - what they have is a legal defence. Shooting a dog must be a last resort. Dogs are classed as property so shooting a dog could trigger criminal damage proceedings and the farmer will have to prove he had a ‘lawful excuse’.

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Whatever you do, do not do anything alone:

1) Your safety
2) It will be your words against theirs, and you risk counter-charges (even made up charges)

Go with some one else, for your safety and as a witness.

Film the discussion.

Carefully phrase your request - what you want the dog owner to do, and why you want them to do it.

Avoid becoming enraged, you will be provoked, but you have to remain emotionless, calm and collected.

Be polite, do not swear, do not get in to the dog owners personal space, and avoid being the instigator of confrontation - but you have the right to self-defence.

If the dog owner is aggressive and comes towards you, and gets in to your personal space, take a few steps backwards - this is seen as a defensive manoeuvre, and the dog walker will be the aggressor if he/she carries on moving towards you and in to your personal space, and that you are trying to avoid confrontation.

If you genuinely feel threatened, the other person is being aggressive, and you have no alternative option to escape/avoid impending physical confrontation - you have the right to self-defence which may include a pre-emptive/defensive physical use of force - but it has to be reasonable, and proportional.

By reasonable and proportional, in other words - legally justified and not over the top - quite simply, the bare minimum to achieve your aim of protecting yourself, others or your property. You can not then take it further and go on to assault some one (beat them up) in the act of "self-defence".

Remember, if the situation escalates, you may be arrested/cautioned/interviewed by the police and have to explain the situation, your course of action and behaviour, and your decision making. This may result in you facing charges.

Link: Self-Defence and the Prevention of Crime | The Crown Prosecution Service (cps.gov.uk)

Reasonable Force
A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances for the purposes of (in the alternative): -

• self-defence;
• defence of another;
• defence of property;
• prevention of crime;
• lawful arrest.

In assessing the reasonableness of the force used, prosecutors should ask two questions:

• was the use of force necessary in the circumstances, i.e. Was there a need for any force at all?; and
• was the force used reasonable in the circumstances?

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And,

To that extent it is a subjective test. There is, however, an objective element to the test. The jury must then go on to ask themselves whether, on the basis of the facts as the accused believed them to be, a reasonable person would regard the force used as reasonable or excessive.

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Personally, do you want to take the risk of injury, damage or legal proceedings against you (whether founded or unfounded)? You have to balance the impact of the behaviour/crime of the dog owner not controlling their dogs, against the risks/costs of taking action or not taking action.

My first port of call would be to the local police station, inform them of what has happened, inform them of your concerns and potential risks to you/your business as a result of the dog walkers behaviour; and ask for their assistance to accompany you, to prevent a "breach of the peace". Take notes, dates/times, locations, names/collar numbers of any person that you speak to, comments on what actions they will take, if any.

A breach of the peace may occur in both public and private places. The following is an accepted legal definition of a breach of the peace:

♦ harm is actually done or is likely to be done, whether by the person against whom the breach is alleged or by someone else who provokes it, or
♦ harm is actually done, or is likely to be done, to a person’s property in their presence, or
♦ a person is genuinely in fear of harm to themselves or their property in their presence, as a result of assault, affray, riot or other disturbance.

A breach of the peace is not a criminal offence as such. It forms part of common law and allows for a person to be brought before a magistrate to be bound over to keep the peace.

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Link: 037 070307 3 pages (met.police.uk)

Whether or not the police attend is a separate matter; but you can clearly demonstrate that you have acted reasonably and lawfully, within your means, and sought help from the police (backed up with your notes for reference) to help to peacefully resolve the issue.

If the police do not help, and the cost can be justified, consider transferring the risk of injury, damage or legal proceedings to a local security/bailiff company*, who you can hire for a couple of hours/day - to pass on the message to the dog walker, while you are somewhere else. That takes the emotion/frustration out of the situation, and reduces the risks to you.


Edit - * not something I do.

Deereone said:

@7610 super q
That's not a problem. If our path was not fenced off the path would not get strimmed as the walkers would detour through our crops.

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Ah, I see, I thought you meant fence off, as in block off permanently. One option I suppose when I win the lottery.....

Ranger Security Solutions said:

The primary issue is the owner of the dogs, not so much the dogs themselves. But if the dogs are worrying livestock, then you have a legal defence (not legal right) to shoot the dogs.

Link: Sheep worrying law UK (crombiewilkinson.co.uk)



Whatever you do, do not do anything alone:

1) Your safety
2) It will be your words against theirs, and you risk counter-charges (even made up charges)

Go with some one else, for your safety and as a witness.

Film the discussion.

Carefully phrase your request - what you want the dog owner to do, and why you want them to do it.

Avoid becoming enraged, you will be provoked, but you have to remain emotionless, calm and collected.

Be polite, do not swear, do not get in to the dog owners personal space, and avoid being the instigator of confrontation - but you have the right to self-defence.

If the dog owner is aggressive and comes towards you, and gets in to your personal space, take a few steps backwards - this is seen as a defensive manoeuvre, and the dog walker will be the aggressor if he/she carries on moving towards you and in to your personal space, and that you are trying to avoid confrontation.

If you genuinely feel threatened, the other person is being aggressive, and you have no alternative option to escape/avoid impending physical confrontation - you have the right to self-defence which may include a pre-emptive/defensive physical use of force - but it has to be reasonable, and proportional.

By reasonable and proportional, in other words - legally justified and not over the top - quite simply, the bare minimum to achieve your aim of protecting yourself, others or your property. You can not then take it further and go on to assault some one (beat them up) in the act of "self-defence".

Remember, if the situation escalates, you may be arrested/cautioned/interviewed by the police and have to explain the situation, your course of action and behaviour, and your decision making. This may result in you facing charges.

Link: Self-Defence and the Prevention of Crime | The Crown Prosecution Service (cps.gov.uk)



And,



Personally, do you want to take the risk of injury, damage or legal proceedings against you (whether founded or unfounded)? You have to balance the impact of the behaviour/crime of the dog owner not controlling their dogs, against the risks/costs of taking action or not taking action.

My first port of call would be to the local police station, inform them of what has happened, inform them of your concerns and potential risks to you/your business as a result of the dog walkers behaviour; and ask for their assistance to accompany you, to prevent a "breach of the peace". Take notes, dates/times, locations, names/collar numbers of any person that you speak to, comments on what actions they will take, if any.



Link: 037 070307 3 pages (met.police.uk)

Whether or not the police attend is a separate matter; but you can clearly demonstrate that you have acted reasonably and lawfully, within your means, and sought help from the police (backed up with your notes for reference) to help to peacefully resolve the issue.

If the police do not help, and the cost can be justified, consider transferring the risk of injury, damage or legal proceedings to a local security/bailiff company, who you can hire for a couple of hours/day - to pass on the message to the dog walker, while you are somewhere else. That takes the emotion/frustration out of the situation, and reduces the risks to you.

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so you dont just aim between the tip of the chin and the ear then?

davidroberts30 said:

so you dont just aim between the tip of the chin and the ear then?

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Depends who is watching...

Farmer Roy said:

i place human life higher than a dogs . . .

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as shackletons right hand man said, when he had to shoot the sled dogs...'i've known many men I'd sooner have shot than the least of the dogs'. I'm with him.

Farmer Roy said:

you can buy snail / slug pellets or mice bait - both of which can be fatal to pets - off the shelf in any local hardware or gardening shop or any food supermarket here

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In UK the domestic ones have a pet deterrent in them. Commercial bait does not, which makes it more attractive to dogs. It is an offence to leave commercial bait around where dogs could get it and quite right too, a local chap was prosecuted because he spilled some slug bait when field dressing and didn't clear it up, quite right too. 1 dog killed, another survived but only with a big vet bill.

Hilly said:

The island is getting crowded.

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Yep this is the problem, to many people dumped onto of each other , 40Millon population would be about right for this country to be comfortable.

serf said:

Yep this is the problem, to many people dumped onto of each other , 40Millon population would be about right for this country to be comfortable.

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Not be many more years till double that .

Probably is already

Hilly said:

Not be many more years till double that .

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Good. 120m should be the aim. I'll take 10m of those for Lincolnshire so we can have a half decent road finally.

Devil's advocate said:

Best solution. But what happens when they get to the wrong side of the fence.

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I couldn't possibly comment!

I would be interested to know what the law is (in all parts of the UK) when an aggressor attacks you or threatens you and your dog defends you.

I do believe if your dog worries trespassing stock on your own land of it's own volition, there is no blame to the owner because the dog is only doing what is natural to it. If, on the other hand, the owner sets his dog on trespassing stock and it worries the animals, he is guilty of an offence. Which leads me to believe, owning a protection dog may be perfectly legitimate provided it or the owner does not initiate the attack and it is normally under control.

Hilly said:

Folk are like this now , had a terrier chased a cyclist just running barking, he went absulotly mental , he was fat and in Lycra lol I just said dressing like Jimmy savil I’m threee sizes two small affecting your blood pressure and your judgment , now pee off before you really embarrass yourself he did , but so aggressive unbelievable .

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Just control your terrier, no problem. When young delivering papers, wife of ATV exec. Used to let her poodle chase me down their long drive, one day in wet brought me down. Next day I was ready and drop kicked poodle into porch as owner opened door