"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete · Aug 9, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
I dont know how much chicory youve grown before but ive found that after growing it for a few years they have acquired more of a taste for it than when we started with it and aim for it as soon as entering the field.
its pretty much in every grass field here now to a greater or lessor degree.
after making round bale hay late when its well gone to seed ( poor hay feed value yes i agree) , where we feed out over winter around the feeders gets chicory cover by the next year .

as much as anything i like it as free subsoiling, cover for new seeds especially in a dry time , and good for catching rain when it pours .

It's possible that it gets "better" as time goes on?
Mobilising more 'stuff' under the normal rootzone might be a part of this, that is to say it gets more minerals in it after it's been established a while and stock learn where to go to get the goodies.

I asked a few people why our stock started eating more thistle and that was the general theme, the soil being less sluggish now means things that were tightly bound are getting made available.
I can't come up with anything to suggest they're wrong, anyway.

Do you notice a lift in performance when they're on it? Seems to dry bums up on woolly lambs?

Tyedyetom · Aug 10, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
Here's the complete other end of the scaleView attachment 978565these calves could see a beetle stalking up on them - but also, extremely content.

Great to look out and see practically every single calf sprawled out, ruminating for much of the afternoon... and to my eyes, the residual suggests they should be grumpy, roaming, noisy little beggars.

They're growing, but not really putting condition on at this rate - it will come, and compensatory growth could last right through to Christmas if we get it right with the grazing.
Quite enjoyable to see this mob, which had most of the "lights" [because this is the system with all the trees in it] looking just as good as the rest.

Our cow-fed speckles still have 20kg on them, all the same.

How much litter is at the bottom of those plants? Or is it more from previous grazings

Kiwi Pete · Aug 10, 2021

Tyedyetom said:
How much litter is at the bottom of those plants? Or is it more from previous grazings

Only about 1 leaf, generally speaking (we have a huge range of pasture types in these systems as they encompass 12 old paddocks) it is the "tipped" leaf from the previous grazing pass, that's grown a little but then yellowed off (senescent).

I used to try to leave too much, much more litter but there isn't the same "need" for that to happen now there's 40, 50mm of it composted where it landed - or at least I don't see that there is the same need, now

Winter grazing means we're eating as deep as we can (without them eating the yellow litter, of course) just to ensure the plants get a wee bitty more time before we come back there.

Due to the density we're sitting at, the utilisation is high but there is a lot pressed into the surface that ensures they can't eat it all

But I do have the grazing too fast (again): as we began the winter plan so early, we're up to ~20th September by August 10th.
A little bit of untoward acceleration but perhaps at the right time of year to be doing that, we are really just shifting them when they need it as opposed to sticking to the plan rigidly.

Next time we do this I would like a lot more "stockpile" ahead of the winter rotation, just to ensure we don't deviate from the plan so much - I'm thinking 150 days would be close to optimum

(it's handy to know this now, because it lets me know how many cells to make in the next technosystem, probably 160)

Kiwi Pete · Aug 10, 2021

Still hard to really see in the photos I have to hand, Tom, but this gives an idea from a better angle/better lighting

Tyedyetom · Aug 10, 2021

When we start farming next year we are planning on going ‘cold turkey’ on the fert. Im just wandering how long things will take to turn around, it’s not all ryegrass got a good variety there.will be interesting to see how it does

Kiwi Pete · Aug 10, 2021

Wow. What's the history of your new farm?

I can afford to, also our land had previously been weaned away from it (he still used liquid N and seaweed foliar in the spring, seaweed in the autumn). Make that choice very carefully, is all I can advise without knowing a LOT more

Tyedyetom · Aug 10, 2021

it’s been run as beef for the last 20 years and has had about 100-150kg N /Ha. From a compound fertiliser with lots of trace elements in. Setstocked with a reasonable bit of silage made. It looks to be in good heart there are a few small docks with lots of dock beetles around. I think some rest and total grazing would work well. We’re going to be under stocked for a couple years and money will be tight which is why I was thinking of not using any unless we need to Sprinkle a bit I n spring and autumn. It’s free draining mineral rich soil with about 50inches of rain.

Poorbuthappy · Aug 10, 2021

Tyedyetom said:
it’s been run as beef for the last 20 years and has had about 100-150kg N /Ha. From a compound fertiliser with lots of trace elements in. Setstocked with a reasonable bit of silage made. It looks to be in good heart there are a few small docks with lots of dock beetles around. I think some rest and total grazing would work well. We’re going to be under stocked for a couple years and money will be tight which is why I was thinking of not using any unless we need to Sprinkle a bit I n spring and autumn. It’s free draining mineral rich soil with about 50inches of rain.

If you're going to be under stocked I can't see cold turkey being a problem at all.
We did on the grazing ground, and whilst I've had a couple of tight years, we were over stocked and it was very dry years. This year has seen plenty of grass for grazing, and the longer rest periods are showing dividends.
I'd be happier going into a dry summer now with these longer rest periods too.

Kiwi Pete · Aug 10, 2021

I'm waiting for someone to say "well if you don't spend it you don't have to claw it back" and it relates to nutrients just as well.
If you don't export much, then nobody needs to buy much. Things like making skeletons and bodies do take a bit of "something" but if you have a good legacy pool then you can mine a bit of that with improved biological activity.

I did soon notice that taking silage out and putting it back later as dung seems to not be nearly as good as just keeping it all in the paddock; this is why we kinda swung towards 'kitset farming' where you just unpack readymade animals and play with that,, takes the emphasis off "produce more" neatly for us

Tyedyetom · Aug 10, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
I'm waiting for someone to say "well if you don't spend it you don't have to claw it back" and it relates to nutrients just as well.
If you don't export much, then nobody needs to buy much. Things like making skeletons and bodies do take a bit of "something" but if you have a good legacy pool then you can mine a bit of that with improved biological activity.

I did soon notice that taking silage out and putting it back later as dung seems to not be nearly as good as just keeping it all in the paddock; this is why we kinda swung towards 'kitset farming' where you just unpack readymade animals and play with that,, takes the emphasis off "produce more" neatly for us

We are going to calve late spring and winter everything on bales and deffered grass. With some ‘good’ silage to extend the grazing in the autumn. That’s the plan any way!
Milk once a day and have a low turnover of money and nutrients but retain a large portion of that.

Chae1 · Aug 10, 2021

@Vegan climate control man

Ideal thread for you

Fenwick · Aug 10, 2021

Tyedyetom said:
We are going to calve late spring and winter everything on bales and deffered grass. With some ‘good’ silage to extend the grazing in the autumn. That’s the plan any way!
Milk once a day and have a low turnover of money and nutrients but retain a large portion of that.

sounds great. and as @Poorbuthappy said if you are understocked going cold turkey on the fert doesnt sound like a problem. - that being said i've never used the stuff so what would i know.

The only problem in a low production system is when exceptional costs occur (such as having to buy land), what is your situation? and where is your farm?

Tyedyetom · Aug 10, 2021

Thank you for your reply’s, we will be renting the land and it is in west Cornwall @Treg country I think!

Kiwi Pete · Aug 10, 2021

Brilliant. Hope it all goes smoothly for you.

Treg · Aug 10, 2021

Tyedyetom said:
Thank you for your reply’s, we will be renting the land and it is in west Cornwall @Treg country I think!

Sorry now catching up, good luck with new farm , easy farming in west Cornwall. I'm on the North Coast up a bit from Portreath.
Are you planning to go Organic or just cutting out the inputs?
Where are you moving down from? Bringing stock equipment with you?
I've moved farm afew times not easy

Open for visitors if you want a chat anytime.

Tyedyetom · Aug 11, 2021

Just cutting out the inputs, we’re in west Devon now so just hopping a county. My wife and I are starting out on our own so we don’t have much to bring with us. Cows, small loader tractor and electric fence is what we really need to get going. And we’ve got a mobile parlour to sort out too
Thanks I may well call in once we get going, cheers

Kiwi Pete · Aug 11, 2021

I think it's been established that you can grow near-enough grass for cows without spending money

cows arrived on the Earth a long time before bags were invented

som farmer · Aug 11, 2021

only humans can complicate matters, to the degree of complexity we have today.
Might have to mow some grass later, haven't even been in, our new tractor yet, hope it's not to different to the last one.
Cows have gone into a new field today, plantains there, have out done the chicory, as with all new things, it's nice to see how things turn out. Pretty obvious now, herbs increase as grass decreases, this field is yet another one, with good grass mat, with prg seed heads blowing in the wind, above.

som farmer · Aug 11, 2021

tractor gets the thumbs up !
haven't mown grass like that for years, going through the mower, it looks exactly the same out, as in. Not the best of stuff, but doctor sun will, hopefully, do it's magic, and turn it into something useful, it would be crap wrapped. Basically a carpet of yorkshire fog, and other weed grasses, no clover though. Think it might get a visit from our dd, pity we cant use herbs. Definitely the worst of the new ground, pity we cant use elec fence, strict grazing would do wonders, but, it's very close, and not expensive, so we can live with owners quirks.

sheepdogtrail · Aug 12, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
I think it's been established that you can grow near-enough grass for cows without spending money View attachment 979129
cows arrived on the Earth a long time before bags were invented

Looks good. Is that Te Taunga in the background.

"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

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