The NI/ROI Protocol

nivilla1982 · Jan 5, 2022

Reclaiming history in Northern Ireland - History Reclaimed

In few parts of the world have emotionally charged narratives about the past been more divisive and dangerous than in Ireland. In recent decades, accusations of official discrimination in Northern Ireland in the access of Catholics to social housing have been accepted as a key part of the...

historyreclaimed.co.uk

Ashtree · Jan 5, 2022

nivilla1982 said:
Reclaiming history in Northern Ireland - History Reclaimed

In few parts of the world have emotionally charged narratives about the past been more divisive and dangerous than in Ireland. In recent decades, accusations of official discrimination in Northern Ireland in the access of Catholics to social housing have been accepted as a key part of the...

historyreclaimed.co.uk

No mention of catholic voting rights??
No mention of public and civil service jobs almost exclusively for Protestants.
no mention of Harland and Wolf a Protestant bastion.
no mention of gerrymandering.
no mention of paisley bringing down O’Neill.
No mention of fact that Paisley militia (at arms length) carried out the first murders of the troubles. Loyalist hero Gusty Spence….
No mention of the base reason for British troops being drafted in, was to protect catholic nationalists from loyalist mobs, aided and abetted by sectarian police and their B Special loyalist enforcer thugs.

The Agrarian · Jan 5, 2022

You've read me a number of times, for you've replied to me, writing that my unionist ancestors (and I in the present time) fully supported the path PM O'Neill was pursuing.

Were there some sectarian police officers? Of course. There are in every police force throughout the world, including the Irish state police. Some of the handful of people on this earth I consider to be truly worthy of my (and your trust, for they would treat you just the same) are ex-RUC/UDR, but I haven't met any who I'd say were unscrupulous characters. The B specials do not deserve to be universally branded loyalist enforcer thugs (of course there were some). That's what you've been told, but if you knew any of them, and what they actually did in their work from day to day/night to night, you would almost certainly come out with a different view. You have to realise ashy that your reading of republican filtered history from your side of the border does not lend itself to having a balanced and reasonable view of how things were.

Oh, and I don't recall hearing any admission from you of how the Irish state was set up on sectarian lines, and how it's society was anti-british (and still harbours strong elements of it). You see, the Irish are without exception unimpeachable and of impeccable standards and morals, as everyone reading this no doubt already knows.

Let's try being honest.

Ashtree · Jan 5, 2022

But anyway the next probable rubicon to be crossed is the inevitable day, when a shinner gets the right at the ballot box, to be first minister. That will be a seminal day for unionism and loyalist. Will the DUP cry No, No, No. probably.
Then ditto in the south when a shiner earns the right to be Taoiseach. Yes, the constitutional democratic process will allow that to happen, without any theatrics.
Personally I will swallow my spit, and accept as will a large number of people down here.
The good thing will of course watching them stumble and fall, under the weight of managing society and the economy. It’s always easy from the safety of opposition, but not so easy when you have to govern.

JimAndy · Jan 5, 2022

Ashtree said:
No mention of catholic voting rights??
No mention of public and civil service jobs almost exclusively for Protestants.
no mention of Harland and Wolf a Protestant bastion.
no mention of gerrymandering.
no mention of paisley bringing down O’Neill.
No mention of fact that Paisley militia (at arms length) carried out the first murders of the troubles. Loyalist hero Gusty Spence….
No mention of the base reason for British troops being drafted in, was to protect catholic nationalists from loyalist mobs, aided and abetted by sectarian police and their B Special loyalist enforcer thugs.

catholics had the same voting rights as Protestants , at the time voting (as was common in many countries) was more based on class/money.

yet today our civil services reflects the makeup of our pop. yet in the south only around 75% identify as RC yet the southern public sector is 98% RC, with it next to impossible for a NON RC to be a primary school teacher and very hard to be a teacher in general

or the High level RoI government officials/MP caught in Gun Running to the IRA in the 70's

and why is it Nationalist like to start talking about the "troubles" starting in the mid to late 60's , is it because they don't like to talk about the clearing of the Protestants from the border counties by the state sponsored IRA in the border wars of the 40's/50's

and tell me how many NI nurses whispered in a dyeing woman ear while she pleaded for a routine life saving op "we don't do that here this is a catholic country"

and why is it that unionist have to sit in government with SF instead of forming a government with the minor party's, yet FG and FF would rather form a unholy alliance that go into power with SF

and were all the Reports that were promised in theGFA/BA/NDND into the Garda/IRA collusion, we had one, that was shut down as fast as possible once it was reviled that a high level garda officer past on the route of the ruc officers were taking home to a IRA death squad, with the report buried

and i did notice in the latest Irish times poll 70% of irsh people would not want a unionist MP in the Dail in a united ireland, so it good to know the the old "not a protestants about the place" is still alive and well in the RoI

and why is it we had a 100 years of people from the RoI telling us that the RoI is a great place for protestants, that they treated fairly and equally. Yet i any serious chat ive seen on RTE about unification. one of the top five things that is said is they need to change the Irish con, to make it fairer to protestants

edit

BTW this isn't meant to be a "whataboutya" post, i'm sure there people here who can list a dozen more things that the British/Protestant have done to them, as i can list dozen more thing the RC/People of ireland have done on us.

the sadness of Ireland is that none of the people living on the island past or present have covered themselves in glory, we all have a dirty, bitter history, and untill BOTH sides are willing to accept what they have done in the past, Ireland can't move on

M-J-G · Jan 5, 2022

JimAndy said:
catholics had the same voting rights as Protestants , at the time voting (as was common in many countries) was more based on class/money.

yet today our civil services reflects the makeup of our pop. yet in the south only around 75% identify as RC yet the southern public sector is 98% RC, with it next to impossible for a NON RC to be a primary school teacher and very hard to be a teacher in general

or the High level RoI government officials/MP caught in Gun Running to the IRA in the 70's

and why is it Nationalist like to start talking about the "troubles" starting in the mid to late 60's , is it because they don't like to talk about the clearing of the Protestants from the border counties by the state sponsored IRA in the border wars of the 40's/50's

and tell me how many NI nurses whispered in a dyeing woman ear while she pleaded for a routine life saving op "we don't do that here this is a catholic country"

and why is it that unionist have to sit in government with SF instead of forming a government with the minor party's, yet FG and FF would rather form a unholy alliance that go into power with SF

and were all the Reports that were promised in theGFA/BA/NDND into the Garda/IRA collusion, we had one, that was shut down as fast as possible once it was reviled that a high level garda officer past on the route of the ruc officers were taking home to a IRA death squad, with the report buried

and i did notice in the latest Irish times poll 70% of irsh people would not want a unionist MP in the Dail in a united ireland, so it good to know the the old "not a protestants about the place" is still alive and well in the RoI

and why is it we had a 100 years of people from the RoI telling us that the RoI is a great place for protestants, that they treated fairly and equally. Yet i any serious chat ive seen on RTE about unification. one of the top five things that is said is they need to change the Irish con, to make it fairer to protestants

edit

BTW this isn't meant to be a "whataboutya" post, i'm sure there people here who can list a dozen more things that the British/Protestant have done to them, as i can list dozen more thing the RC/People of ireland have done on us.

the sadness of Ireland is that none of the people living on the island past or present have covered themselves in glory, we all have a dirty, bitter history, and untill BOTH sides are willing to accept what they have done in the past, Ireland can't move on

Of course there are faults all round, anyone who claims there isn't is either a bare faced liar or a total idiot.
A lot of people need to learn not to take offence at things being said about events that they had no influence over.

While people talk about sides there's always a division, which is kept rumbling along nicely by those with a political agenda.

I'd say once our generation dies off things will improve pretty quickly, when you see how much better things have become in the past 20 odd years, imagine how that could have improved further if there weren't any individuals alive who witnessed the troubles.
Combine that with religion becoming a less and less common thing, it's one less difference.
Integrated schools would be a big help too.

Farm buy · Jan 6, 2022

The Agrarian said:
It's not terribly informative. Most people would see it's a laughably one-sided account of history.

For people who dont live or have never lived there I see it as being a description of reality there over the years. Why would he be biased.
Information from individual or on specific happenings from people that live there are well slanted depending on which side it comes from. One thing for sure is that it was not a laughable piece of history for ordinary folks what ever way it was told
It is a peaceful a place to live now or maybe more as any other part of the UK. Is it not?

The Agrarian · Jan 6, 2022

That's my point. It's not a balanced description of reality. Perhaps it's what you've read, but as my granny used to say, paper refuses nothing. Where are you from? You're bio doesn't have a location yet...

It's like one saying Maggie wrecked the country and industry. But then another chap says that industry wasn't competitive anyway and the union's took on a fight they weren't going to win. It was the policeman's fault that drove back the protests, or was it the miner's. And so on.

pgk · Jan 6, 2022

The Agrarian said:
It's not terribly informative. Most people would see it's a laughably one-sided account of history.

Especially the loyalists who struggle with accepting responsibility for their contribution to releasing the scourge of terrorism.

I do not believe internment can be entirely attributed to the military, it was Brian Faulkner and his administration which talked a weak UK labour government into the use of internment as a last resort in the rather weak hope that this would bring the civil unrest to a close without the need to keep the army on the streets thereby revealing to the wider world the failure and excesses of the loyalist administration, the RUC and their B special mates.

nivilla1982 · Jan 6, 2022

pgk said:
Especially the loyalists who struggle with accepting responsibility for their contribution to releasing the scourge of terrorism.

I do not believe internment can be entirely attributed to the military, it was Brian Faulkner and his administration which talked a weak UK labour government into the use of internment as a last resort in the rather weak hope that this would bring the civil unrest to a close without the need to keep the army on the streets thereby revealing to the wider world the failure and excesses of the loyalist administration, the RUC and their B special mates.

It will be news to Ted Heath that was a Labour Government in August 1971 at the implementation of Operation Demetrius.
MI5 also botched the implementation using lists drawn up with Cold War considerations too the forefront rather than NI/Irish specific context. (Ie the "Official" IRA was Marxist aligned while the "Provisionals" were less overtly Marxist.)

pgk · Jan 6, 2022

nivilla1982 said:
It will be news to Ted Heath that was a Labour Government in August 1971 at the implementation of Operation Demetrius.
MI5 also botched the implementation using lists drawn up with Cold War considerations too the forefront rather than NI/Irish specific context. (Ie the "Official" IRA was Marxist aligned while the "Provisionals" were less overtly Marxist.)

Shows how age has addled my brain, I thought Reginal Maudling was a labour home secretary, sad to think that is another negative to attribute to the conservatives. What also surprises me is that with the increase in civil unrest as a direct result of the start of internment without trial that it continued until 1975. With hindsight it is hard to believe the politicians could have got so many things wrong. That said I fear that is the concern with the current crowd who appear to be unconcerned with the problems they may cause to the residents of the six counties and further afield with their approach to the NI protocol

S

Nenuphar · Jan 7, 2022

JimAndy said:
catholics had the same voting rights as Protestants , at the time voting (as was common in many countries) was more based on class/money.

yet today our civil services reflects the makeup of our pop. yet in the south only around 75% identify as RC yet the southern public sector is 98% RC, with it next to impossible for a NON RC to be a primary school teacher and very hard to be a teacher in general

or the High level RoI government officials/MP caught in Gun Running to the IRA in the 70's

and why is it Nationalist like to start talking about the "troubles" starting in the mid to late 60's , is it because they don't like to talk about the clearing of the Protestants from the border counties by the state sponsored IRA in the border wars of the 40's/50's

and tell me how many NI nurses whispered in a dyeing woman ear while she pleaded for a routine life saving op "we don't do that here this is a catholic country"

and why is it that unionist have to sit in government with SF instead of forming a government with the minor party's, yet FG and FF would rather form a unholy alliance that go into power with SF

and were all the Reports that were promised in theGFA/BA/NDND into the Garda/IRA collusion, we had one, that was shut down as fast as possible once it was reviled that a high level garda officer past on the route of the ruc officers were taking home to a IRA death squad, with the report buried

and i did notice in the latest Irish times poll 70% of irsh people would not want a unionist MP in the Dail in a united ireland, so it good to know the the old "not a protestants about the place" is still alive and well in the RoI

and why is it we had a 100 years of people from the RoI telling us that the RoI is a great place for protestants, that they treated fairly and equally. Yet i any serious chat ive seen on RTE about unification. one of the top five things that is said is they need to change the Irish con, to make it fairer to protestants

edit

BTW this isn't meant to be a "whataboutya" post, i'm sure there people here who can list a dozen more things that the British/Protestant have done to them, as i can list dozen more thing the RC/People of ireland have done on us.

the sadness of Ireland is that none of the people living on the island past or present have covered themselves in glory, we all have a dirty, bitter history, and untill BOTH sides are willing to accept what they have done in the past, Ireland can't move on

What a bizarre but insightful post, you are literally 30+ years out of date on the republic. One might think you are being deliberately disingenuous.

The primary teacher thing is contingent on being able to teach Irish/Gaelge.

The public sector has a completely transparent hiring process that can be appealed.

Hardly any people under 60 are religious in any way, it's mostly older people and immigrants that practice any form of religion and more power to them.

The commissioner of the Gardai is from Northern Ireland and not of nationalist extraction.

It's a common thought alright that few want fundamentalist types in the dail, it should be secular.

I have no idea what you mean by the last bit, I'd like to hear more.

Have you ever asked a prodestant family in the republic how they like life here? Try down around Bandon in Cork.

M-J-G · Jan 8, 2022

How sad that people are identified by their religion.

I do find it ironic that people who live in where people have commonly been murdered because of their religion and beliefs would be concerned about ROI.

le bon paysan · Jan 9, 2022

Meanwhile, Liz Truss has a meeting with Sefcovic this week and has today announced her negotiating strategy.
"I'm going to thcweam and thcweam and thcweam until you cooperate and do what we want! And if you don't I'm going to go Article 16."

pgk · Jan 9, 2022

le bon paysan said:
Meanwhile, Liz Truss has a meeting with Sefcovic this week and has today announced her negotiating strategy.
"I'm going to thcweam and thcweam and thcweam until you cooperate and do what we want! And if you don't I'm going to go Article 16."

Sad but true

nivilla1982 · Jan 9, 2022

Liz Truss 'willing' to override Northern Ireland-part of Brexit deal

The foreign secretary issues a warning over the Northern Ireland-part of the deal if negotiations fail.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Agrarian · Jan 10, 2022

So, continuing the now very lengthy saga of not being able to get things delivered to us in Northern Ireland, there's been a new installment this morning. After failing at the delivery details point of ordering to get three other companies to sell me a radiator, I finally found one end of last week, and after much time searching, which agreed to sell me one that sort of met my specs. Cue email this morning.

. I've really been trying hard to get it through to some people here that these issues we've had as a family are not stock related.

Screenshot_2022-01-10-09-05-38-878_com.google.android.gm.jpg

Boohoo · Jan 10, 2022

The Agrarian said:
So, continuing the now very lengthy saga of not being able to get things delivered to us in Northern Ireland, there's been a new installment this morning. After failing at the delivery details point of ordering to get three other companies to sell me a radiator, I finally found one end of last week, and after much time searching, which agreed to sell me one that sort of met my specs. Cue email this morning. . I've really been trying hard to get it through to some people here that these issues we've had as a family are not stock related.

View attachment 1008981

Our order of vegetable seeds for the garden was cancelled last week. No shortage of stock, no alternatives offered, just no delivery to BT post codes.

yin ewe · Jan 10, 2022

The Agrarian said:
So, continuing the now very lengthy saga of not being able to get things delivered to us in Northern Ireland, there's been a new installment this morning. After failing at the delivery details point of ordering to get three other companies to sell me a radiator, I finally found one end of last week, and after much time searching, which agreed to sell me one that sort of met my specs. Cue email this morning. . I've really been trying hard to get it through to some people here that these issues we've had as a family are not stock related.

View attachment 1008981

What's wrong with beggs in pennybridge?

M-J-G · Jan 10, 2022

Anyone trying suppliers in NI or the south?

Failing that, I've got friends over here next weekend, and heading back a week on Wednesday if anyone wants anything taken back, they'll be in a pickup so a radiator would fit fine.

The NI/ROI Protocol

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page