All things Dairy

More to life · May 7, 2022

Jdunn55 said:
But is he?

I hear so much conflicting advice and have tried everything and the truth is f*ck all has made any sort of difference

Vet says give fluids
Half the people on here say give fluids
The kther half have just said don't give fluids I'm killing rhem

Parafor is excellent in your current circumstance,once a calf is scouring or just there eyes go back fluids are required. Calves on parafor shouldn't really scour so it's a good chance it's over feeding.

vantage · May 7, 2022

Jdunn55 said:
But is he?

I hear so much conflicting advice and have tried everything and the truth is f*ck all has made any sort of difference

Vet says give fluids
Half the people on here say give fluids
The kther half have just said don't give fluids I'm killing rhem

Sh!t happens! Lost 3 heifer calves to suspected salmonella last week, scour check were all negative, salmonella suspected but couldn’t type for antibiotics. Given a sulphur drug, peeing in their ear would have been more effective.
My calves usually get 3.5 l colostrum as soon as possible, if they’re normal size, then a second feed of 2-3 l depending. Offer at the third feed, if they don’t want it , it doesn’t do them any harm to miss it, some might not want to suck at the fourth, they’re usually keen thereafter. I will top out at just over 1kg of powder/7l of milk replacer.

In the pit · May 7, 2022

More to life said:
Parafor is excellent in your current circumstance,once a calf is scouring or just there eyes go back fluids are required. Calves on parafor shouldn't really scour so it's a good chance it's over feeding.

Over feeding is the exact cause
I’d be looking at 4 weeks before I would put 6.5 lts into them

More to life · May 7, 2022

Beef farmer said:
Half dose works better for us than a full dose

Are you sure your not talking about halocur .

yin ewe · May 7, 2022

Beef farmer said:
1st prize, its shti. View attachment 1034371

If that was here it would be a field, gardens are overrated.

In the pit · May 7, 2022

vantage said:
Sh!t happens! Lost 3 heifer calves to suspected salmonella last week, scour check were all negative, salmonella suspected but couldn’t type for antibiotics. Given a sulphur drug, peeing in their ear would have been more effective.
My calves usually get 3.5 l colostrum as soon as possible, if they’re normal size, then a second feed of 2-3 l depending. Offer at the third feed, if they don’t want it , it doesn’t do them any harm to miss it, some might not want to suck at the fourth, they’re usually keen thereafter. I will top out at just over 1kg of powder/7l of milk replacer.

But how are they built up to that amount

More to life · May 7, 2022

In the pit said:
Over feeding is the exact cause
I’d be looking at 4 weeks before I would put 6.5 lts into them

We'd be up to 6 at a week old but every calf is different.

vantage · May 7, 2022

In the pit said:
But how are they built up to that amount

Like you, at about a month.

In the pit · May 7, 2022

So how come some people get to 6 lts at the end of week 1 and others take 4 weeks

More to life · May 7, 2022

In the pit said:
So how come some people get to 6 lts at the end of week 1 and others take 4 weeks

Calf size I suspect

vantage · May 7, 2022

In the pit said:
So how come some people get to 6 lts at the end of week 1 and others take 4 weeks

I size match calves, penned up to 6 on a feeder. I’ve got some dinky heifers’ calves, started at 2 l upto 2.5 l a feed two weeks old. Don’t want to drown them with too much.

Jdunn55 · May 7, 2022

Mine are friesians so weigh heavy, 40kg is a normal size birth weight (the calf that's dieing is 48kg)

I'm more than happy to try cutting them back to a litre per feed for the first 2 weeks but I'll guarantee that when the next one dies in a week or so that I'll be told that I've starved them and they needed more milk!

vantage · May 7, 2022

Jdunn55 said:
Mine are friesians so weigh heavy, 40kg is a normal size birth weight (the calf that's dieing is 48kg)

I'm more than happy to try cutting them back to a litre per feed for the first 2 weeks but I'll guarantee that when the next one dies in a week or so that I'll be told that I've starved them and they needed more milk!

Good sized calves!

som farmer · May 7, 2022

Jdunn55 said:
So what do I do?
If I don't give them parafor they'll die from crypto if I do give them it then that could cause them to die as well?

Tested positive every day since birth (snap testing daily in case ecoli, rota or corona pops up)

Damned if I do, damned if I don't!

use hydration stuff, lots of it, but they still need milk, as feed, Parafor, is really hot stuff, and won't be doing the calf, itself, much good, other than killing the bad bugs, with all the good ones as well. Halocur is 'kinder' on the calf.
We had 1 calf rearer, who insisted each calf had to have 4 litres of colostrum, tubed asp.
regardless of size of calf, or whether it had suckled the cow. We parted company fairly quickly, small jx calves were dying, 'drowned' with to much milk, and if they looked 'sick' she would tube them with more !
You are giving those calves a lot of milk, perhaps, that might be a reason, in so much as they get a 'touch' of milk scours, which then lets the 'nasty' bugs in, when their natural immunity is challenged. How regular is your feeding regime ? time wise.
You vaccinate your cows, v r/virus, use parafor from birth, that should kill every common bug, so look at routine, how regular timing is, and cut back on amount of milk, to start with, and build up slowly. Ours only get 2 litres twice a day, of stored colostrum/milk, until 4or5 weeks old. Approx 180, including bought in calves, through our shed, since oct, 2 died from ? very early day 2 or 3, and 2 more through disease.

and just like all of us, when young, we didn't know when to stop drinking beer, and felt very 'groggy' the next morning. To much milk offered, could have the same effect ?

More to life · May 7, 2022

som farmer said:
use hydration stuff, lots of it, but they still need milk, as feed, Parafor, is really hot stuff, and won't be doing the calf, itself, much good, other than killing the bad bugs, with all the good ones as well. Halocur is 'kinder' on the calf.
We had 1 calf rearer, who insisted each calf had to have 4 litres of colostrum, tubed asp.
regardless of size of calf, or whether it had suckled the cow. We parted company fairly quickly, small jx calves were dying, 'drowned' with to much milk, and if they looked 'sick' she would tube them with more !
You are giving those calves a lot of milk, perhaps, that might be a reason, in so much as they get a 'touch' of milk scours, which then lets the 'nasty' bugs in, when their natural immunity is challenged. How regular is your feeding regime ? time wise.
You vaccinate your cows, v r/virus, use parafor from birth, that should kill every common bug, so look at routine, how regular timing is, and cut back on amount of milk, to start with, and build up slowly. Ours only get 2 litres twice a day, of stored colostrum/milk, until 4or5 weeks old. Approx 180, including bought in calves, through our shed, since oct, 2 died from ? very early day 2 or 3, and 2 more through disease.

Parafor is an antibiotic, Halocur is basically toxic that's terrible advice. Parafor should only be used in emergencies tho.

som farmer · May 7, 2022

Beef farmer said:
@som farmer think how much N this is fixing. Near 50%? Clover I would guess. I fecking hate it. Any guesses why?
View attachment 1034366 View attachment 1034367

give up, my views on clover seem at odds with others,
that looks like small leaf clover, which is only good for sheep, but could be mistaken.
would keep your lawn looking green though.
looking forward to mowing, looks huge cuts, time will tell.

Dead Rabbits · May 7, 2022

As I’ve said we feed as much as they will drink from day 1 but I’d say the calves here have a much higher energy requirement to the UK. So might be onto something

som farmer · May 7, 2022

Jdunn55 said:
4-6 litres, 4 litres start of the week, 6 by the end - note the minimum requirement

so yes I was technically 500ml over but she's a big calf so presumably she could handle a bit more especially if she is scouring and losing fluids
View attachment 1034368

those instructions were the same 40yrs ago, calves are not the same though.
your cheapest answer, find a nice young girl, to do them for you, you may well find your calves are much better, and she might be a helping hand for you.
Expense wise, if it works, its dirt cheap, add up your calf losses/cost til now, it really is your cheapest solution.

som farmer · May 7, 2022

In the pit said:
Effect of Acidified Milk Replacer on the Calf's Digestive Tract - Calf Sessions

Acidified milk replacer affects the pH in the young calf's abomasum and influences the pH in the small intestine. pH can affect the presence of pathogens.

calfsessions.com

For @som farmer some good reading

interesting, have e'mailed him, be interesting to see response.
we tried acidified milk powder, through a machine, years ago, but not impressed.

Jdunn55 · May 7, 2022

vantage said:
Good sized calves!

They look small but weigh heavy, wider than the holsteins. My holstein calf from the woodmarsh heifer, stood 3-4 inches taller than the friesians and looked 10kg heavier than all of them, she actually weighed 10kg less!

Same with my bulling heifers, hoksteins look 50kg heavier than the friesians but are 50kg lighter!

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