The NI/ROI Protocol

pgk · May 12, 2022

Thecub said:
I understand the sentiment you express. However I live in Northern Ireland and the protocol does affect everyday life here. Restrictions to medicine, various foodstuffs etc would this be acceptable on the mainland? I suggest not and rightly so. Whether its Boris or the EU fault doesn't matter really it just needs sorted asap. From my perspective the EU seem not to want any sort of constructive dialogue to find a solution that works for all.

I am well versed in NI matters as a regular visitor back to see relatives. I am afraid you have been taken in by Boris and Frosty as were many when Boris visited and lied outrageously as to his deal. Mainland UK taxpayers may feel a little irked that the DUP took millions of money with Teresa May's bribe and then did not support her deal which resulted in the border in the Irish sea, that being Boris' deal. He signed the deal and lied to force it through Parliament. The EU and US are simply reminding the UK that they are obliged to honour their commitments under the terms of the agreement. Supplies of certain medicines and foodstuffs are also subject to shortages for various reasons on mainland. You should be glad NI has not suffered the economic fallout seen on the mainland and the ONS stats record that your economy has seen a positive effect.

pgk · May 12, 2022

nivilla1982 said:
Time to restore GB/Northern Ireland trade
MAY 12, 2022 76 COMMENTS
The BBC and other media swamp us with the EU view on the Protocol. Most of the interviewers clearly have not read the document. If they had they would be asking the EU
1 Why have the completely alienated the Unionist community leading to the breakdown of the Assembly Executive? This breaks the Protocol’s support for the Good Friday Agreement.
2. Why do they presume to place controls and obstacles in the way of GB to NI trade when the Protocol expressly supports the integrity of the UK’s internal market?
3. Why did they sign up to the Protocol under the Withdrawal Agreement which under EU law was not allowed to tackle the post Brexit relationship? Why did they help create Article 13.8 which recognised the potential need to change or abolish the Protocol?
4. Article 16 expressly allows U.K. unilateral action where there has been damage to the community and or economy of NI, as the Unionists demonstrate there has.
5. Clause 38 of the Withdrawal Act which gives legal force to the Agreement in the U.K. expressly allows the U.K. Parliament to override the Agreement where necessary. If it had not quite a few Conservative MPs who want a sovereign U.K. would not have voted for it.
6. Article 186 of the Withdrawal Agreement requires good faith by both parties. The EU has not shown this in relation to the guarantees in the document to respect U.K. sovereignty and internal market

It is absurd that U.K. supermarkets cannot ship items to NI as easily as to any place in GB. It is completely wrong that the EU can stop the U.K. cutting VAT in NI. It is outrageous that the EU pushes through huge amounts of new law that has to be applied in NI when they have no say in its making. The government must act. There are several ways of doing so legally. It is the EU which is failing to uphold the Protocol.
Protocol. “The Good Friday Agreement…should be protected in all its parts”
“shall use best endeavours to facilitate the trade between NI and other parts of the U.K.”
“should impact as little as possible on the everyday life of communities”
“The importance of maintaining the integral place of NI in the UKs internal market”
etc

Time to restore GB/Northern Ireland trade – John Redwood's Diary

Perhaps you ought to take your concerns up with the unionist politicians who were complicit in pushing through the current agreement. Perhaps Teresa's deal was not as bad as the ERG had us believe.

Ashtree · May 12, 2022

60% of MLA’s elected to the NI assembly last week, support the protocol.
EU has offered to reduce border checks by 80%, and has said it is prepared to go further. London has not taken up the offer, or negotiated in good faith to set up the modalities to implement this offer.
Fact is that Liz Stilton Truss, now smells a chance at No 10, which will probably never again come her way. She has decide to play hard ball, to bring the ERG grouping into her camp. All this balderdash about the GB market and protecting the GF agreement …… load of pish….

nivilla1982 · May 12, 2022

The EU offer of "reduced" checks actually increases the checks required as their offer is based on the full implementation of protocol rather than the current grace periods . The UK Government made proposals in July 2021 and October 2021 to the EU, Which the EU did not engage with in any form.

pgk · May 13, 2022

nivilla1982 said:
The EU offer of "reduced" checks actually increases the checks required as their offer is based on the full implementation of protocol rather than the current grace periods . The UK Government made proposals in July 2021 and October 2021 to the EU, Which the EU did not engage with in any form.

You will have to explain why the EU need to engage? The UK was not forced to sign the "oven ready deal" they signed and told HOC and the nation it was a "great deal" an "oven ready deal" and forced it through Parliament without adequate scrutiny. We now have to live with it or bite the bullet and take the mainland back into the single market with all the obvious attractions that brings for the ordinary folk of the mainland.

nivilla1982 · May 13, 2022

pgk said:
You will have to explain why the EU need to engage? The UK was not forced to sign the "oven ready deal" they signed and told HOC and the nation it was a "great deal" an "oven ready deal" and forced it through Parliament without adequate scrutiny. We now have to live with it or bite the bullet and take the mainland back into the single market with all the obvious attractions that brings for the ordinary folk of the mainland.

Quite simple if the EU want to accuse the UK government of not engaging with them, they also leave themselves open to the same charge.
The over arching narrative of the "need" for the Protocol was to "protect" the Belfast Agreement, (which has been somehow overinterpreted to mean no border on this island,.) We are now in scenario with every unionist elected to Stormont opposing the protocol. The DUP will not nominate a DFM or Speaker, there fore the institutions of the Agreement do not function.
The British Government under both May and Johnson were weak in a number of areas, but they are not the only ones who bear responsibility for the current situation.

pgk · May 13, 2022

nivilla1982 said:
Quite simple if the EU want to accuse the UK government of not engaging with them, they also leave themselves open to the same charge.
The over arching narrative of the "need" for the Protocol was to "protect" the Belfast Agreement, (which has been somehow overinterpreted to mean no border on this island,.) We are now in scenario with every unionist elected to Stormont opposing the protocol. The DUP will not nominate a DFM or Speaker, there fore the institutions of the Agreement do not function.
The British Government under both May and Johnson were weak in a number of areas, but they are not the only ones who bear responsibility for the current situation.

As one might expect the EU spokesman gives a different take on the negotiations. Are you confident in believing anything the UK government says? They do have an unfortunate history of lying

le bon paysan · May 13, 2022

pgk said:
As one might expect the EU spokesman gives a different take on the negotiations. Are you confident in believing anything the UK government says? They do have an unfortunate history of lying

They can't lie straight in bed!
QT last night had the audience laughing long and loud at Suella Braverman floundering her way through.

Muck Spreader · May 13, 2022

Just asking to those who know more. Is it likely that if the Protocol is removed or altered to humour the DUP, Sinn Fein would then refuse to be part of the assembly? Also could the smaller pro Protocol parties form a coalition to replace the DUP as the second party and deputy leader? :scratchhead:

nivilla1982 · May 13, 2022

nivilla1982 · May 13, 2022

pgk said:
As one might expect the EU spokesman gives a different take on the negotiations. Are you confident in believing anything the UK government says? They do have an unfortunate history of lying

“Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”

pgk · May 13, 2022

nivilla1982 said:
“Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”

The only thing I am certain of is the UK government persistently lie and are not very good at it

bobk · May 13, 2022

pgk said:
The only thing I am certain of is the UK government persistently lie and are not very good at it

A lie is the truth you don't believe ,

pgk · May 13, 2022

le bon paysan said:
They can't lie straight in bed!
QT last night had the audience laughing long and loud at Suella Braverman floundering her way through.

I saw that, it surprises me that she was a lawyer as she was very non persuasive. If what I have read is correct it is her legal opinion and not of any eminent QC on which the government will rely regards to NIP. Very dangerous as this does not appear to be an area in which she practiced.

bobk · May 13, 2022

pgk said:
I saw that, it surprises me that she was a lawyer as she was very non persuasive. If what I have read is correct it is her legal opinion and not of any eminent QC on which the government will rely regards to NIP. Very dangerous as this does not appear to be an area in which she practiced.

Only you Marxists watch that shite , get yur sen on GB news and see the truth

pgk · May 13, 2022

le bon paysan said:
They can't lie straight in bed!
QT last night had the audience laughing long and loud at Suella Braverman floundering her way through.

I now see Emilly Thornbury has written to her seeking clarification as to Suella's earlier opinion on the same point in which she concluded it was not possible to unilaterally breach the terms of the NIP

Ashtree · May 13, 2022

It’s all just noise, meant to distract the plebs, from any scrutiny of the fkkukwits running down the country. They know they can introduce legislation to cause a diversion, and wind down the clock, while it gets bogged down in the Lords and other legal challenges. The other halfwit fkukkwits in the DUP will be placated in the process, until the next opportunity to shout NO, NO, NO. In the end, the combined witless fkukkwits in Tory party and DUP, will just have to take the NIP, up the dark place.

Farm buy · May 13, 2022

nivilla1982 said:
“Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”

I somehow have a sympathy for Jeffery, by allowing Sf to govern Ni under his watch, must fell like raising the white flag and its is understandable why he doesn't want to be the Unionist to do that. All the postering about protocols is only a convinent shadow and they were lucky to have it to hide behind imo.

le bon paysan · May 13, 2022

On Article 16, Pascal Lamy former head of the WTO and EU trade commissioner tells BBCPM: “If the UK acts unilaterally saying there will be no border… it is the UK saying we negate Brexit. The very decision to Brexit entails the existence of a border. You cannot have your cake and eat it."

Hindsight · May 13, 2022

le bon paysan said:
They can't lie straight in bed!
QT last night had the audience laughing long and loud at Suella Braverman floundering her way through.

But your European mob are truly a bunch of feckwits. Want a good slapping. They are taking the pee like a old fishwife. Clever fecking EU mob thought they could use the sectrianism in NO to stop the leave vote and then to get BRINO off May. Didn't work out - now they seek revenge. Me, I would take Macron and the other EU mob and give a good kicking. That would sort it. Stupid feckers.

None of the poxy niceties of legalese and treaties - just the view of an ordinary bloke who sees a bunch of clever sods taking the mick.

The NI/ROI Protocol

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Time to restore GB/Northern Ireland trade