Suckler cows.. is it worth it?

Hilly · Jun 9, 2022

Woolless said:
Well, I thought things were going too well. 13/14 calved no bother in the first three weeks. Been waiting on last cow for nearly three weeks. She calved teatime last night, calf apparently ok but dead at 0400 this morning . Bit tougher to shrug off than a dead lamb!

Not sure whether to get a calf and persevere with her or cut my losses? How long would she need to be on short rations to dry her up? A week before she could go back in with the rest to put some flesh on?

I wouldnt set a bought in calf on but if tou have one of tour own spare go for it, het it skinned save yourself alot of trouble if tou are setting on .

Woolless · Jun 9, 2022

hendrebc said:
Just get rid of her is what I'd do keep a heifer instead. Shouldn't take long for her to dry up especially if nothing has suckled her properly.

Yes, been thinking about it on the way to work. Think she can go. Late calving despite being allowed to slip back a couple of months and now this. Another Red Poll won't see the bull again due to temperament, so the jury is well and truly out on them. I've had three Hereford X heifer calves out of them this year. Hopefully they'll be a step in the right direction.

livestock 1 · Jun 9, 2022

Sometimes culling your herd at the right times can make all the difference really in every way

hendrebc · Jun 9, 2022

Woolless said:
Yes, been thinking about it on the way to work. Think she can go. Late calving despite being allowed to slip back a couple of months and now this. Another Red Poll won't see the bull again due to temperament, so the jury is well and truly out on them. I've had three Hereford X heifer calves out of them this year. Hopefully they'll be a step in the right direction.

If you had a twin or a bottle calf then it would probably be worth doing but I've bought a calf for a cow before and she wouldn't take it and ended up feeding that on a bottle

Add in disease risk I don't think it's worth it when culls are selling so well.

Whitepeak · Jun 9, 2022

Woolless said:
I would imagine that @Whitepeak's cows, being a terminal sire breed really, have not really been selected on milk supply while on the other hand his calves will have excellent growth potential. So I can see how that would work for him. Your cows will be significantly more milky/dual purpose and really need to be providing all the calf needs, as you say.

Yes, pure continentals so not always the milkiest. Although it's something I'm working on by culling the worst performing cows out, I've been recording weaning efficiency for a couple of years now.
Also in the group I have several Jan/Feb born calves off heifers, which would benefit from being creep fed. I'm not expecting the April born calves to start taking any for a few months yet.

M-J-G · Jun 9, 2022

Woolless said:
I would imagine that @Whitepeak's cows, being a terminal sire breed really, have not really been selected on milk supply while on the other hand his calves will have excellent growth potential. So I can see how that would work for him. Your cows will be significantly more milky/dual purpose and really need to be providing all the calf needs, as you say.

Yes it's part of the way that those who run terminal type cows tend to be forced to go.

But it doesn't have to be that way, particularly at today's cereal costs.
I've found that good continental cows (15% of which are heifers that calve at 2yo or less) can rear calves to 9 months at a year in year out average of 1.4kg/day without anything but grass and silage.

Woolless · Jun 9, 2022

hendrebc said:
If you had a twin or a bottle calf then it would probably be worth doing but I've bought a calf for a cow before and she wouldn't take it and ended up feeding that on a bottle
Add in disease risk I don't think it's worth it when culls are selling so well.

Yes, if I had a twin I wouldn't think twice. But working as well as farming means that time is at a premium here and I don't fancy taking on the work that @livestock 1 suggests would be necessary, disease risk aside. The cull value would come in handy as well!

livestock 1 · Jun 9, 2022

Woolless said:
Yes, if I had a twin I wouldn't think twice. But working as well as farming means that time is at a premium here and I don't fancy taking on the work that @livestock 1 suggests would be necessary, disease risk aside. The cull value would come in handy as well!

They are better skinned I’m not fast at it but I am getting faster here as time goes on did 2 one morning in March took me just under half an hour nothing to brag about but I am improving. There’s no guarantee she will take it either although they usually do

Gulli · Jun 9, 2022

Hilly said:
I look at feeding suckled calves as another way to make a few quid , ie , you can not feed them say sell for 800 or you could say give each calf £200 pounds worth and sell for £1050 thus turning 200 pound into 250 over 6 months say , thats the way in look at it and a nice fed well grown beast is nicer to look at easier sold etc .

£50 to cover the labour and you aren't any better off.

Granted we are only talking rough figures here

livestock 1 · Jun 9, 2022

Gulli said:
£50 to cover the labour and you aren't any better off.

Granted we are only talking rough figures here

If you counted in labour with suckler cows you would definitely give up
You can get £950 a week driving a wagon

som farmer · Jun 9, 2022

our last worker, decided he had had enough of farming, correctly, straight on a ready mix lorry £17 hr, double on sats. Cannot afford that, at least at his ability, which wasn't great.

hendrebc · Jun 9, 2022

livestock 1 said:
They are better skinned I’m not fast at it but I am getting faster here as time goes on did 2 one morning in March took me just under half an hour nothing to brag about but I am improving. There’s no guarantee she will take it either although they usually do

If you buy cows in your probably not as concerned with disease as some?
You must have a lot of cows reading your comments on here so probably a few twins kicking about anyway?

Anymulewilldo · Jun 9, 2022

Depends on the cow and why the calf died. Good cows under 4th calf get adopted onto. But I’ve plenty of good dairy men I can reliably source a good disease free calf from. Cows I don’t like or have been doing something stupid get dried off on straw, good dose of spot on (swish now) and turned out with the heifers until cleaned up and shining. Then off they go.
Got a 9th calver here, due too calve this week. Been a lovely quiet cow until last autumn. Now when you go in the field she puts her head up and is away with the fairies. She’ll calve and go straight in with the heifers. Rear me the calf and then away she goes. I’ve already picked her replacement heifer!

I was looking at my motley bunch of cows last night, and then at their bulls from last year in the shed. Put against the dairy bred blues/lims I’ve got in the other pens that cost £250-£340 at 5 weeks I won’t be parting with my cows anytime soon. If all goes too plan this next 12 months we’ll be upping them quite significantly.

Hilly · Jun 9, 2022

Gulli said:
£50 to cover the labour and you aren't any better off.

Granted we are only talking rough figures here

Hypothetical numbers i was using , never be better off doing nothing

if i go down i will go down trying .

M-J-G · Jun 9, 2022

Woolless said:
Well, I thought things were going too well. 13/14 calved no bother in the first three weeks. Been waiting on last cow for nearly three weeks. She calved teatime last night, calf apparently ok but dead at 0400 this morning . Bit tougher to shrug off than a dead lamb!

Not sure whether to get a calf and persevere with her or cut my losses? How long would she need to be on short rations to dry her up? A week before she could go back in with the rest to put some flesh on?

You're not alone brother, we all have them!!

For years I ran at 3 losses from bulling to turnout.
One year it would be 3 barren cows, the following year would see 3 dead calves, or 2 barren and one dead calf.
The 3 thing went maybe 10 years, it seemed like that was the number that was set.
Loosing the calves was tougher but easier sorted as there are usually twins to go onto the cow.

M-J-G · Jun 9, 2022

livestock 1 said:
They are better skinned I’m not fast at it but I am getting faster here as time goes on did 2 one morning in March took me just under half an hour nothing to brag about but I am improving. There’s no guarantee she will take it either although they usually do

I've yet to have on reject a calf with a skin on as long as she has licked and bonded with the dead calf.

Suffolksucklers · Jun 9, 2022

Woolless said:
Well, I thought things were going too well. 13/14 calved no bother in the first three weeks. Been waiting on last cow for nearly three weeks. She calved teatime last night, calf apparently ok but dead at 0400 this morning . Bit tougher to shrug off than a dead lamb!

Not sure whether to get a calf and persevere with her or cut my losses? How long would she need to be on short rations to dry her up? A week before she could go back in with the rest to put some flesh on?

If she's your last I wouldn't bother getting one to put on her as what will you do with the the calf if she doesn't take it? She'd be on the way down the road if it was me, cull price is too good to carry passengers

farmer JD · Jun 9, 2022

Change of subject how does having sucklers compare too rearing dairy heifer calves using sexed semen on them too retain the heifer calf , then too sell as fresh calved heifers ? On a profit basis ,

Gulli · Jun 9, 2022

Hilly said:
Hypothetical numbers i was using , never be better off doing nothing if i go down i will go down trying .

Real numbers wouldn't be a lot different.

I don't know about that, plenty of farmers would be better off doing nothing from what I've seen

Anymulewilldo · Jun 9, 2022

farmer JD said:
Change of subject how does having sucklers compare too rearing dairy heifer calves using sexed semen on them too retain the heifer calf , then too sell as fresh calved heifers ? On a profit basis ,

Around here it’s a dangerous game. Go down with TB and you’re fecked

Suckler cows.. is it worth it?

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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