Sustainable farming incentive - handbook for 2023 has been published

Janet Hughes Defra

Janet Hughes Defra

Member
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Afternoon all,

Today we've published a handbook containing all the detailed information about the sustainable farming incentive offer for this year.

The handbook is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sfi-handbook-for-the-sfi-2023-offer

An overview blogpost is here: https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/2023/06/21/sfi-more-ways-to-enhance-your-income-productivity-and-the-environment/

The handbook sets out all the detailed actions, rules and requirements of the scheme, in a single handbook that you can download and print (because this is what many of you have asked us to do, rather than spreading the information across multiple pages on GOV.UK).

We have made some changes to the scheme in response to feedback from you and other farmers and through our pilot and early rollout of the scheme. In particular, we have made a much broader range of options available, made the scheme more flexible so you can pick the individual actions you want to do rather than having to do them in set combinations or percentages of land entered into the scheme.

Finally, I know I have not been present on the forum in the consistent, ongoing way many of you would like. I understand why that has been frustrating and annoying, and I am really sorry about that. I have found that am just not able to personally engage on every thread on an ongoing basis, I'm afraid. However I do really want to find a way of addressing your questions and hearing your feedback all the time, not just when we publish new information, so I am working with @Clive to put in place a better, ongoing, sustainable way of managing this so that you can ask questions of me and my team and give us feedback when they arise. We will let you know where we get to with that as soon as possible.

For this particular thread, I am planning to be online at least daily, for the next week, to answer your questions about the information we've published today. I have posted this as a question with voting, and if you could upvote questions that you particularly want me to address it would be helpful if you could vote for them so that I can prioritise my time and attention, and I will then do my best to work through as many of them as I possibly can. I hope this is helpful and look forward to your questions.

If you have questions about your specific farm situation, the best thing to do is contact the RPA contact centre and they will be able to point you in the right direction.

Thank you.
 
Solution
T
Honestly this is where you get farmers feedback and where you should have laid out questions before any bps was removed , it seems the cart was sent out before the horse was even born you now have the whole budget and are asking us if we want to participate with tearms that are ludicrous to any business owner for little in return but a few quid and a "your doing your bit for the environment"? the forms are so complex that it might as well be written in binary code.
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Aspiring Peasants

Aspiring Peasants

Member
Location
North Pennines
2tractors said:
I would say you have interpreted the bird food option correctly, my only point would be that action is on improved grassland so you would need to make sure that the field had been (for example) reseeded in the last 15 years or had a good proportion of perennial ryegrass in its composition. If its not improved grassland the only option is low input grassland.
Click to expand...
The fields I have in mind haven’t been reseeded but they’ve been limed within the last 10 years and have fertiliser and muck every year. I thought that would be enough to class them as improved
 
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L

livestock 1

Member
Henarar said:
It may do if you get paid for the overgrown grass and the handful of stock run round for nothing, where as stocking to the max and losing money on the job may not pay so well.
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Grazing land is a bit of a balance. Sheep do best on short fit grass that’s actively growing. They do no good on a load of dead long stuff similarly with cattle. I’m no way convinced that someone else not knowing the land can advise stocking rates.
 
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Vader

Vader

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
People's Republic of South Yorkshire
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Henarar

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Devil's advocate said:
Agree, better still if you can do something extra with you time.

Like train to be a consultant on SFI.
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well if this is what we are going to get will have to make the best of it.
livestock 1 said:
Grazing land is a bit of a balance. Sheep do best on short fit grass that’s actively growing. They do no good on a load of dead long stuff similarly with cattle. I’m no way convinced that someone else not knowing the land can advise stocking rates.
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they can advise but if they know what they are talking about is another matter, that said they set the rules so go with it or carry on as you are and get no payments,
 
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T

The Seeker

Member
Listened to some steering group video on YouTube today , the main man had been to China to a village with 20 million people , he then went to a city with 40 million , then he met a guy who told him by 2040 they aim to have 400 million in the mega city , he came back to uk and now wants uk ( uk farmers ) to help with sequestration of all that carbon .. that’s why we have to plant trees and go min till , I’ll find a link what a joke
 
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E

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Raider112 said:
Don't know all the details but @egbert does.
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Most commons were in old style HLS.
Where they're on SSSIs, NE have the final say over most matters.
RPA run them officially, but go to NE for detail.
NE also dictate what happens on SSSI outside schemes.....so they say.

Drastic cuts being brought in as HLS schemes were rolled over (in the absence of ELMS of any note) led to furore, and pending review over how SSSIs are run.
If review finds NE are unjustified in their actions, they're toast - at local level certainly.
Future still unclear though.
If NE proven right, we'll be faced with huge stock cuts to maintain scheme payments - and cuts with no payment if we don't like it.
Schemes will fail, commoners will graze, NE will have to try and enforce their cuts. Have very little history of success in that department.

If review somehow fudges findings, situation is unresolved.

Animosity levels between sides off the scale.
NE lying through their teeth to try and make themselves look clever/right.


If they're left in charge of anything, I haven't the least idea how it can work now.
 
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L

livestock 1

Member
egbert said:
Most commons were in old style HLS.
Where they're on SSSIs, NE have the final say over most matters.
RPA run them officially, but go to NE for detail.
NE also dictate what happens on SSSI outside schemes.....so they say.

Drastic cuts being brought in as HLS schemes were rolled over (in the absence of ELMS of any note) led to furore, and pending review over how SSSIs are run.
If review finds NE are unjustified in their actions, they're toast - at local level certainly.
Future still unclear though.
If NE proven right, we'll be faced with huge stock cuts to maintain scheme payments - and cuts with no payment if we don't like it.
Schemes will fail, commoners will graze, NE will have to try and enforce their cuts. Have very little history of success in that department.

If review somehow fudges findings, situation is unresolved.

Animosity levels between sides off the scale.
NE lying through their teeth to try and make themselves look clever/right.


If they're left in charge of anything, I haven't the least idea how it can work now.
Click to expand...
These moors graziers like myself have been forced to take sheep off for many years now probably 20 years or more now.
Makes you wonder what the bigger plans been
 
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R

Raider112

Member
egbert said:
Most commons were in old style HLS.
Where they're on SSSIs, NE have the final say over most matters.
RPA run them officially, but go to NE for detail.
NE also dictate what happens on SSSI outside schemes.....so they say.

Drastic cuts being brought in as HLS schemes were rolled over (in the absence of ELMS of any note) led to furore, and pending review over how SSSIs are run.
If review finds NE are unjustified in their actions, they're toast - at local level certainly.
Future still unclear though.
If NE proven right, we'll be faced with huge stock cuts to maintain scheme payments - and cuts with no payment if we don't like it.
Schemes will fail, commoners will graze, NE will have to try and enforce their cuts. Have very little history of success in that department.

If review somehow fudges findings, situation is unresolved.

Animosity levels between sides off the scale.
NE lying through their teeth to try and make themselves look clever/right.


If they're left in charge of anything, I haven't the least idea how it can work now.
Click to expand...
@Aspiring Peasants
 
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E

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
livestock 1 said:
These moors graziers like myself have been forced to take sheep off for many years now probably 20 years or more now.
Makes you wonder what the bigger plans been
Click to expand...
Er, you do realise I turn blackie ewes and Galloway cows onto a 27,000 acre common don't you?


I've been in enviro agreement for 37 years on the enclosed, and 22 years on the common.
When we started, these payments were a reward for managing something difficult and special, and worthy of reward.
Then, somehow it's slipped round to a payment for not damaging it too much.

Now, with ELMS rationale, it'll be payment for somehow making it even more special.
And according to NE, that's best done by removing 80-100% of the remaining livestock (and lying about it).

Gov need to get this sh1tshow in order pdq.
 
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Aspiring Peasants

Aspiring Peasants

Member
Location
North Pennines
egbert said:
Most commons were in old style HLS.
Where they're on SSSIs, NE have the final say over most matters.
RPA run them officially, but go to NE for detail.
NE also dictate what happens on SSSI outside schemes.....so they say.

Drastic cuts being brought in as HLS schemes were rolled over (in the absence of ELMS of any note) led to furore, and pending review over how SSSIs are run.
If review finds NE are unjustified in their actions, they're toast - at local level certainly.
Future still unclear though.
If NE proven right, we'll be faced with huge stock cuts to maintain scheme payments - and cuts with no payment if we don't like it.
Schemes will fail, commoners will graze, NE will have to try and enforce their cuts. Have very little history of success in that department.

If review somehow fudges findings, situation is unresolved.

Animosity levels between sides off the scale.
NE lying through their teeth to try and make themselves look clever/right.


If they're left in charge of anything, I haven't the least idea how it can work now.
Click to expand...
Raider112 said:
@Aspiring Peasants
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, all I can say is I hope NE are hung out to dry for this.
I was wanting to know more because of people’s concern that going into a SFI scheme could result in similar measures. For me on upland pasture with no common, fell or moorland and no SSSI’s I can‘t see how a 3 year low input grassland or bird feed option could lead to this. But if I had any of those features it would definitely be a worry. Just shows what an absolute mess these schemes are , as I’ve said before one of the best things they could do to help bird numbers is control predators
 
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S

soapsud

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dorset
egbert said:
Schemes will fail, commoners will graze, NE will have to try and enforce their cuts. Have very little history of success in that department.
Click to expand...
Unpack this for us, if you can - without giving your gameplan away, obviously.

It's not a game of chicken, I understand. And bureaucrats can soon be re-deployed elsewhere. And Natural England are soon to have their legal wings clipped. But even so, you and your commoners still have time on your side? History and the future - even if the present doesn't seem like it?
Guerrilla grazing may become a national pastime. Then where will NE be?
 
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L

livestock 1

Member
egbert said:
Er, you do realise I turn blackie ewes and Galloway cows onto a 27,000 acre common don't you?


I've been in enviro agreement for 37 years on the enclosed, and 22 years on the common.
When we started, these payments were a reward for managing something difficult and special, and worthy of reward.
Then, somehow it's slipped round to a payment for not damaging it too much.

Now, with ELMS rationale, it'll be payment for somehow making it even more special.
And according to NE, that's best done by removing 80-100% of the remaining livestock (and lying about it).

Gov need to get this sh1tshow in order pdq.
Click to expand...
Er, so do I. Do you have the same number there you used to? I don’t. Or the same number you have rights for?
By the way they weren’t turned out they used to live there as in every day it’s supposed to be their home not there for a holiday now and again
 
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SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 111 38.5%

  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 109 37.8%

  • 25-50%

    Votes: 41 14.2%

  • 50-75%

    Votes: 6 2.1%

  • 75-100%

    Votes: 4 1.4%

  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 17 5.9%
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