This isn't going to end well!

slackjawedyokel · Oct 17, 2023

Vader said:
There can never be peace when the group who rules Gaza has sworn to destroy Israel

But support for Hamas is only there because of the decades of oppression by Israel.

The cycle of violence needs to be broken. There will be a lot of boys without fathers now in Gaza (and likely to be a lot more in a few days time). Further oppression will only strengthen terrorists such as Hamas as ill feelings become more entrenched.

They are the symptom not the disease.

Treg · Oct 17, 2023

British sisters missing after Hamas attack - BBC News

Noiya, 16, and Yahel, 13, are from Kibbutz Be'eri, near the Gaza border.

www.bbc.co.uk

Treg · Oct 17, 2023

Sadly the above story has just been updated, the youngest sister found dead

British teen missing in Hamas attack on Israel confirmed dead, family say

Yahel, who went missing with sister Noiya, was killed in the assault on Israel, her family have said.

www.bbc.co.uk

yoki · Oct 17, 2023

slackjawedyokel said:
But support for Hamas is only there because of the decades of oppression by Israel.

The cycle of violence needs to be broken. There will be a lot of boys without fathers now in Gaza (and likely to be a lot more in a few days time). Further oppression will only strengthen terrorists such as Hamas as ill feelings become more entrenched.

They are the symptom not the disease.

That's as far off the mark as those who claim that the Irish terrorist organisations only had the degree of support they enjoyed because of the presence of British troops in the late 60's.

You're dealing with centuries old grievances here in both instances, to try and take a point in history where one side 'started it' is neither accurate or of any value.

It's about the here and now.

Hamas should release all the hostages, unconditionally, and that would then put the onus on Israel to de-escalate to some degree.

It's the only way which I can see that may pull things back, even slightly.

BrianV · Oct 17, 2023

Treg said:
Sadly the above story has just been updated, the youngest sister found dead

British teen missing in Hamas attack on Israel confirmed dead, family say

Yahel, who went missing with sister Noiya, was killed in the assault on Israel, her family have said.

www.bbc.co.uk

You can bet a lot more will be found that way, the terrorists have deliberately done the most despicable things for the very reason of goading Israel into doing what they are doing & they have fallen for it, Hamas cannot seriously do damage to Israel alone but stir up enough Arab nations & combined in a war they could do serious damage to Israel & force the Americans to intervene & we know how that plays out.
Biden is not rushing there for a sunny couple of days, it's finally dawning on the Americans what's likely to happen if they don't reign Israel in.

Lowland1 · Oct 17, 2023

yoki said:
That's as far off the mark as those who claim that the Irish terrorist organisations only had the degree of support they enjoyed because of the presence of British troops in the late 60's.

You're dealing with centuries old grievances here in both instances, to try and take a point in history where one side 'started it' is neither accurate or of any value.

It's about the here and now.

Hamas should release all the hostages, unconditionally, and that would then put the onus on Israel to de-escalate to some degree.

It's the only way which I can see that may pull things back, even slightly.

The Jewish-Muslim animosity is a fairly recent thing caused by the formation of Israel and the expulsion of the Palestinians . The reason Jews felt the need for a homeland or safe haven has been the thousand plus years of persecution by us Christians culminating in the Holocaust.

slackjawedyokel · Oct 17, 2023

yoki said:
That's as far off the mark as those who claim that the Irish terrorist organisations only had the degree of support they enjoyed because of the presence of British troops in the late 60's.

You're dealing with centuries old grievances here in both instances, to try and take a point in history where one side 'started it' is neither accurate or of any value.

It's about the here and now.

Hamas should release all the hostages, unconditionally, and that would then put the onus on Israel to de-escalate to some degree.

It's the only way which I can see that may pull things back, even slightly.

Like you say- it’s about the here and now.

I think we both know that Hamas will not release the hostages willingly, although I agree that that would be the right thing to do. They are terrorists fighting a guerilla war.

Anything Israel does to further hit, persecute or oppress Gaza will only strengthen the hand of the terrorists in the long run which I why I believe that it’s up to Israel to show that it’s prepared to make concessions for peace. There is no reasonable security reason for stealing parts of Palestine- Israel should withdraw its illegal settlements PDQ if it seriously wants peace.

It won’t, so the whole crazy f’d up merry go round continues.

yoki · Oct 17, 2023

slackjawedyokel said:
Like you say- it’s about the here and now.

I think we both know that Hamas will not release the hostages willingly, although I agree that that would be the right thing to do. They are terrorists fighting a guerilla war.

Anything Israel does to further hit, persecute or oppress Gaza will only strengthen the hand of the terrorists in the long run which I why I believe that it’s up to Israel to show that it’s prepared to make concessions for peace. There is no reasonable security reason for stealing parts of Palestine- Israel should withdraw its illegal settlements PDQ if it seriously wants peace.

It won’t, so the whole crazy f’d up merry go round continues.

No one will expect the Israelis to back down while Hamas is holding Israeli hostages and it's very difficult to make a case for why they should.

Right or wrong is irrelevant, without it happening Israel will continue on it's present course.

Vader · Oct 17, 2023

slackjawedyokel said:
But support for Hamas is only there because of the decades of oppression by Israel.

The cycle of violence needs to be broken. There will be a lot of boys without fathers now in Gaza (and likely to be a lot more in a few days time). Further oppression will only strengthen terrorists such as Hamas as ill feelings become more entrenched.

They are the symptom not the disease.

I do agree with what you say to a point.
But I still maintain that voting for Hamas to rule Gaza was their choice and now is the consequence.
The PLO had changed stance and agreed that Israel had a right to exist. Israel agreed that the PLO were a legitimate political entity. Self rule in Gaza strip was being allowed.

Iran then not happy with that, so Hamas worked on making PLO look bad and Hamas gained power through Gaza citizens choice, a choice for violence which is what they got.

There will never be peace while Iran is run by fanatics who have the west and Israel.
As even if Israel gave the Gaza strip to palistine for a 2 state solution, then there would be fanatics who would use it as a base to attack Israel from.

The violence will only stop when Israel is wiped out as the fanatics want or a change of leadership in Iran that's more moderate with humanitarian values.

slackjawedyokel · Oct 17, 2023

yoki said:
No one will expect the Israelis to back down while Hamas is holding Israeli hostages and it's very difficult to make a case for why they should.

Right or wrong is irrelevant, without it happening Israel will continue on it's present course.

Neither would I expect that right now. Israel feels the need to be seen to be taking strong action right now especially as its security arrangements for Gaza have been demonstrated to be breachable. I’m talking about the coming weeks, months and years to move towards a more stable peace.

Vader · Oct 17, 2023

slackjawedyokel said:
Neither would I expect that right now. Israel feels the need to be seen to be taking strong action right now especially as its security arrangements for Gaza have been demonstrated to be breachable. I’m talking about the coming weeks, months and years to move towards a more stable peace.

Only way to get peace is for the US to vote in Donald...
He is the only 1 who would put Iran down and Iran know he crazy enough to do it.
That is trump's strength ironically, his unknown actions.

yoki · Oct 17, 2023

slackjawedyokel said:
Neither would I expect that right now. Israel feels the need to be seen to be taking strong action right now especially as its security arrangements for Gaza have been demonstrated to be breachable. I’m talking about the coming weeks, months and years to move towards a more stable peace.

That seems entirely reasonable.

yoki · Oct 17, 2023

Vader said:
Only way to get peace is for the US to vote in Donald...
He is the only 1 who would put Iran down and Iran know he crazy enough to do it.
That is trump's strength ironically, his unknown actions.

He was also the only prominent politician who didn't jump in at the very beginning and give Israel the green light to respond on any scale they desired.

Interesting to note that the Biden administration are now shuffling uncomfortably towards the position that Trump took over a week ago.

For him to be the big loud-mouthed buffoon, he seems to be considerably ahead of the rest on policy remarkably often.

So what does that say about them!

caveman · Oct 17, 2023

yoki said:
No one will expect the Israelis to back down while Hamas is holding Israeli hostages and it's very difficult to make a case for why they should.

Right or wrong is irrelevant, without it happening Israel will continue on it's present course.

Hamas also holding Palestinians hostage.
Palestinians, who's voting slips were pre populated.
Maybe they will see it and rise up against them and fight for freedom and peace alongside the Israelis.
We could but hope.
Who really knows what's going on behind the scenes?

yoki · Oct 17, 2023

caveman said:
Who really knows what's going on behind the scenes?

Never a truer word spoken.

The real fools are those who think they do.

BrianV · Oct 17, 2023

Western blind panic stations now arriving.

Where the hell do these stupid Israelis think these people are going to go back to?

Treg · Oct 17, 2023

Mother of French-Israeli hostage begs for her return as Hamas releases video

Footage shows Mia Schem, 21, asking to go back to her family as quickly as possible

www.theguardian.com

betweenthelines · Oct 17, 2023

Lowland1 said:
The Jewish-Muslim animosity is a fairly recent thing caused by the formation of Israel and the expulsion of the Palestinians . The reason Jews felt the need for a homeland or safe haven has been the thousand plus years of persecution by us Christians culminating in the Holocaust.

Top post-sums up the whole situation in a nutshell!

ollie989898 · Oct 17, 2023

Vader said:
I am talking of past history when Egyptians controlled Gaza strip. I not sure they worried about supporting Palestine then as they hated Israel, as did all the neighbours.
Which is why there was the 6 day war.

That was long ago. How far back are you choosing to go before forming these statements?

betweenthelines · Oct 17, 2023

Israel's attempt to devastate Gaza is disgusting-far beyond anything the Russians are doing in Ukraine.

Image if the UK Govt had bombed Derry to oblivion in reprisal for terrorist attacks on the mainland in the 70's

This isn't going to end well!

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