Hi, anyone ever grown animals and crops together?

Maxicl · Nov 13, 2023

Hi, I'm a student, and not directly related to farming. You see a lot these days about plant based diets and the like, in common media, so I just wanted to do some fact checking with you guys.

Anyone grown animals and crops on the same fields (perhaps in rotation)? Does it produce better results than doing cattle only or plants only or worse? Do you remember your parents/grandparents doing farming like this together/separately or can you compare the two options, and the sorts of things/benefits involved in both?

Any stories would be appreciated much!

spin cycle · Nov 13, 2023

just waiting

Widgetone · Nov 13, 2023

oh deary me

Ffermer Bach · Nov 13, 2023

Maxicl said:
Hi, I'm a student, and not directly related to farming. You see a lot these days about plant based diets and the like, in common media, so I just wanted to do some fact checking with you guys.

Anyone grown animals and crops on the same fields (perhaps in rotation)? Does it produce better results than doing cattle only or plants only or worse? Do you remember your parents/grandparents doing farming like this together/separately or can you compare the two options, and the sorts of things/benefits involved in both?

Any stories would be appreciated much!

I found this report very interesting. Talking about growing purely "plant based foods" and how over time that destroys soil fertility and organic matter, but with animal agriculture integrated into the farm system, soils are built up during the fertility building phase (with animals) allowing them to be depleted again during the "plant based" phase. This is the elephant in the room that the media and our chattering classes fail to realise when they talk about going plant based.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5eaf39b294a67f4074454f01/5eaf3e4df2c08f3777ffb1b4/5eaf3e41f2c08f3777ffadc8/1588543041846/David-Walston-Nuffield-Report-2015.pdf?format=original

matthew · Nov 13, 2023

The above is your answer @Maxicl
If you want to be 100 percent plant culture, there has to be a 'green manure' crop grown, to plough nutrients backs into the soil. so a break crop - and nothing to eat. Rotation of crops is vital, i.e legumes fixing nitrogen, followed by a non leguminous crop. But animal manures are better.

Hill Ground · Nov 13, 2023

Maxicl said:
Anyone grown animals and crops on the same fields (perhaps in rotation)

The rotation bit is essential! Same field same time good for the stock, but no 4t crops of wheat grown like that!!!

steveR · Nov 13, 2023

Maxicl said:
Hi, I'm a student, and not directly related to farming. You see a lot these days about plant based diets and the like, in common media, so I just wanted to do some fact checking with you guys.

Anyone grown animals and crops on the same fields (perhaps in rotation)? Does it produce better results than doing cattle only or plants only or worse? Do you remember your parents/grandparents doing farming like this together/separately or can you compare the two options, and the sorts of things/benefits involved in both?

Any stories would be appreciated much!

Like any "mixed farm", I have been doing this all my farming life... nearly 50 years now. This farm has been mixing stock and crops ever since it started being farmed, so probably several hundred years.

In essence, livestock are essential in an environment where modern artificial fertiliser is not used or is possibly used, in reduced quantities.

I look on my livestock grazing grass or specialist feed crops, and the muck they produce going back on the land, as being the ideal for farming. The livestock producing very high quality protein from a "plant based diet".... Milk should also be included in this scenario, but I don't milk here!

Sharpy · Nov 13, 2023

@Maxicl the term you are looking for is mixed farming, a good compromise between growing food crops (which feed humans directly) and grass based food production (meat and milk) via grazing animals such as cattle and sheep.

Edit. Beaten by @steveR

Luke Cropwalker · Nov 13, 2023

Maxicl said:
Hi, I'm a student, and not directly related to farming. You see a lot these days about plant based diets and the like, in common media, so I just wanted to do some fact checking with you guys.

Anyone grown animals and crops on the same fields (perhaps in rotation)? Does it produce better results than doing cattle only or plants only or worse? Do you remember your parents/grandparents doing farming like this together/separately or can you compare the two options, and the sorts of things/benefits involved in both?

Any stories would be appreciated much!

Lots of farmers grow plants and crops in the same fields currently. The crop is grass and the animals are sheep and beef or dairy cattle. This grass pasture based system is probably one of the highest animal welfare systems and the grass sequesters huge amounts of Carbon. This is probably contrary to what you see in the media, so well done you for asking the question.

Farma Parma · Nov 13, 2023

spin cycle said:
just waiting

more Popcorn it must be one of them Mondays lads (I'll get me Coat or Spade) this time

steveR · Nov 13, 2023

Maxicl said:
Hi, I'm a student, and not directly related to farming. You see a lot these days about plant based diets and the like, in common media, so I just wanted to do some fact checking with you guys.

Anyone grown animals and crops on the same fields (perhaps in rotation)? Does it produce better results than doing cattle only or plants only or worse? Do you remember your parents/grandparents doing farming like this together/separately or can you compare the two options, and the sorts of things/benefits involved in both?

Any stories would be appreciated much!

@Maxicl please do join in and respond here, and ask any further questions you may have.

spin cycle · Nov 13, 2023

Farma Parma said:
more Popcorn it must be one of them Mondays lads (I'll get me Coat or Spade) this time

no no...I actually thought he meant 'experience of growing crops and livestock in the same field at the same time'...cue the b'strds all taking pee outta me

I do have some experience of it though

I concluded it worked best with my stock in other ppls crops.....my lot do it without my knowledge often ....that at least gives me 'plausible deniability '.....I call it "the advanced foraging genotype"

Maxicl · Nov 13, 2023

Ffermer Bach said:
I found this report very interesting. Talking about growing purely "plant based foods" and how over time that destroys soil fertility and organic matter, but with animal agriculture integrated into the farm system, soils are built up during the fertility building phase (with animals) allowing them to be depleted again during the "plant based" phase. This is the elephant in the room that the media and our chattering classes fail to realise when they talk about going plant based.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5eaf39b294a67f4074454f01/5eaf3e4df2c08f3777ffb1b4/5eaf3e41f2c08f3777ffadc8/1588543041846/David-Walston-Nuffield-Report-2015.pdf?format=original

Hi, thanks for explaining and providing the evidence as well!

Maxicl · Nov 13, 2023

spin cycle said:
no no...I actually thought he meant 'experience of growing crops and livestock in the same field at the same time'...cue the b'strds all taking pee outta me

I do have some experience of it though

I concluded it worked best with my stock in other ppls crops.....my lot do it without my knowledge often that at least gives me 'plausible deniability '.....I call it "the advanced foraging genotype"

Ha ha, yes I'd imagine the cows love to explore other people's property

ollie989898 · Nov 13, 2023

Maxicl said:
Hi, I'm a student, and not directly related to farming. You see a lot these days about plant based diets and the like, in common media, so I just wanted to do some fact checking with you guys.

Anyone grown animals and crops on the same fields (perhaps in rotation)? Does it produce better results than doing cattle only or plants only or worse? Do you remember your parents/grandparents doing farming like this together/separately or can you compare the two options, and the sorts of things/benefits involved in both?

Any stories would be appreciated much!

Yes it can be done. Basically this was the way that agriculture went on for hundreds of years (google the four course rotation), more modern systems can use cover crops for livestock to shelter or forage in.

The main issues with trying to grow a crop in the same place is that the stock will eat or trample it. Given enough time and the will, some classes of stock will uproot or strip trees if you give them the chance.

If you have no livestock then the nutrients have to be replaced eventually- you can't crop a field year after year and keep taking it away, which is what some organic farms find- they deplete their soils of phosphorus and potassium over time.

Conversely, land can become sick of livestock if it is not managed very carefully- also there can be a sizeable parasite burden in pastureland that isn't rested and rotated.

farmerm · Nov 13, 2023

Assuming this whole thread is not some wind up....

First lesson to understand and explain to your fellow students...

Planes, cars, power stations emit carbon, livestock cycles carbon.

Maxicl · Nov 13, 2023

steveR said:
Like any "mixed farm" I have been doing this all my farming life... nearly 50 years now. This farm has been mixing stock and crops ever since it started being farmed, so probably several hundred years.

In essence, livestock are essential in an environment where modern artificial fertiliser is not used or is possibly used, in reduced quantities.

I look on my livestock grazing grass or specialist feed crops, and the muck they produce going back on the land, as being the ideal for farming. The livestock producing very high quality protein from a "plant based diet".... Milk should also be included in this scenario, but I don't milk here!

Hi, thanks for answering.
Interesting.

And I suppose you spread the muck that doesn't spread itself (i.e. when the cattle is inside) later, or sell it to other farms..?

Another question
How much do you find you need to supplement the diet with feed crops (per cow per day of the summer/winter I suppose) and how do the feed crops typically work, are they typically from other farmers or companies or abroad?

Sorry for so many questions!
Max

Hill Ground · Nov 13, 2023

@Maxicl Out of interest as someone outside of ag you probably have an interesting view that most of us don't have.

How did you think it worked?

ollie989898 · Nov 13, 2023

Luke Cropwalker said:
Lots of farmers grow plants and crops in the same fields currently. The crop is grass and the animals are sheep and beef or dairy cattle. This grass pasture based system is probably one of the highest animal welfare systems and the grass sequesters huge amounts of Carbon. This is probably contrary to what you see in the media, so well done you for asking the question.

The biggest point you didn't mention there is that livestock can survive (and even thrive) on land that would never grow a productive crop in a month of Fridays.

Maxicl · Nov 13, 2023

ollie989898 said:
Yes it can be done. Basically this was the way that agriculture went on for hundreds of years (google the four course rotation), more modern systems can use cover crops for livestock to shelter or forage in.

The main issues with trying to grow a crop in the same place is that the stock will eat or trample it. Given enough time and the will, some classes of stock will uproot or strip trees if you give them the chance.

If you have no livestock then the nutrients have to be replaced eventually- you can't crop a field year after year and keep taking it away, which is what some organic farms find- they deplete their soils of phosphorus and potassium over time.

Conversely, land can become sick of livestock if it is not managed very carefully- also there can be a sizeable parasite burden in pastureland that isn't rested and rotated.

Interesting points worth remembering here, thanks for summarising!

Hi, anyone ever grown animals and crops together?

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