Cause of flooding from storm Henk

Kidds · Jan 3, 2024

Lots of pics and videos of flooding around the country from storm Henk and plenty of flooding here too but why?
We only had 20mm which isn't usually enough to cause widespread flooding. Using Wundermap to look around at rainfall elsewhere it appears to have been similar, even in areas with pretty bad flooding events. I know Wundermap isn't the most accurate of things but it is close enough if you look at plenty of station records.
My thought are that there was so much flooding because everywhere is absolutely saturated already, and further rain is just run off.
I have also concluded that if the drainage system was properly maintained the land would not be so saturated as it would have dried out over the last week or so. We haven't had much rain over the last week really but as it can't get away it just builds up and overflows as it did yesterday.
Rainfall here has been

25/12/23	0.00mm
26/12/23	0.00mm
27/12/23	12.8mm
28/12/23	4.01mm
29/12/23	0.81mm
30/12/23	5.21mm
31/12/23	0.81mm
1/1/24	7.21mm
2/1/24	19.61mm

That sort of rainfall shouldn't cause an issue and shouldn't lead to flooding. I think it shows that if the streams and rivers were working as they should there wouldn't have been any issue at all. That might not work for everywhere but it certainly would in this part of Cheshire and it wouldn't mean elsewhere in Cheshire would be flooded either as it would be in the sea.
Using farmland as a buffer for flooding is a load of rubbish as far as I can tell around here and as people found out yesterday when the farmland is full you guys downstream are getting the whole lot in one go. The sponge is full.

Barleymow · Jan 4, 2024

The land is saturated 5mm here makes everything here wet ,dry ditches are even full to overflowing

B'o'B · Jan 4, 2024

Yes land was pretty much at capacity by the end of New Year’s Day. It didn’t take long to start running off on the 2nd and it just kept raining. No huge peak rainfall rates, just persistent steady rain.

Vader · Jan 4, 2024

B'o'B said:
Yes land was pretty much at capacity by the end of New Year’s Day. It didn’t take long to start running off on the 2nd and it just kept raining. No huge peak rainfall rates, just persistent steady rain.

No no, it's all sheep's fault according to the moonbat cult...

Wombat · Jan 4, 2024

Everything is saturated, starting on the 27th we had 25mm, 5mm, 2mm, 12mm, 10mm, 18mm, 18mm and 4mm yesterday. That’s 94mm in a week or two months rainfall, don’t get me wrong infrastructure needs some serious maintainence but it has just never ended.

Yale · Jan 4, 2024

The amount of houses and businesses built on flood plains is huge in the last 50 years. There has been a TV programme on over Christmas and if we had the harsh snow and low temps then the catastrophic fast thaw this would cripple the country. Folk used to have little electricity points in the house in ‘47 with tile floors etc. and water could near be brushed out, light an open fire and carry on. Today these modern homes would be trashed costing thousands. It will happen again.

yellow belly · Jan 4, 2024

we had 49 mm in 26 hours in the 2 days on land at full capacity
the rivers here were at record levels 3 miles from their source flooding down stream was inevitable
the water falling out of the sky goes straight into the rivers

with no evapotranspiration since october and 458 mm on saturated ground the water has to go into the rivers
the water table will be high with spring running full and on heavy land it has to go into the ditches
even swallow holes cannot take any more so more ends up in the rivers

Wood field · Jan 4, 2024

@Kidds , you say you haven’t had much rain over the last week or so, yet I am not a million miles from you and we’ve had rain constantly on saturated land, the moor around and above us is a mass of rivulets, it’s all coming down hill.
Ironically local facebook groups share flood warnings ( Calder valley is very prone)
They share “ nasty farmer “ posts regularly
They never mention the new houses in steep valleys with concrete and block paving

borderterribles · Jan 4, 2024

Wood field said:
@Kidds , you say you haven’t had much rain over the last week or so, yet I am not a million miles from you and we’ve had rain constantly on saturated land, the moor around and above us is a mass of rivulets, it’s all coming down hill.
Ironically local facebook groups share flood warnings ( Calder valley is very prone)
They share “ nasty farmer “ posts regularly
They never mention the new houses in steep valleys with concrete and block paving

Well, that's maybe because plenty of the "nasty farmer" posters live in these very same houses!

Optimus · Jan 4, 2024

Ground is properly saturated now.doesnt take much to flood.theres water running constantly in places where it only runs after days of heavy rain in the past.

Devil's advocate · Jan 4, 2024

Wood field said:
@Kidds , you say you haven’t had much rain over the last week or so, yet I am not a million miles from you and we’ve had rain constantly on saturated land, the moor around and above us is a mass of rivulets, it’s all coming down hill.
Ironically local facebook groups share flood warnings ( Calder valley is very prone)
They share “ nasty farmer “ posts regularly
They never mention the new houses in steep valleys with concrete and block paving

Plenty of rain here too.

Its just everywhere, land drains running at almost full bore, surface water everything.

We all know the infra structure needs huge restoration work & some new resevoirs to take hill water & top up rivers in summer.

Do your local facebook groups have any solutions?

Wood field · Jan 4, 2024

Devil's advocate said:
Plenty of rain here too.

Its just everywhere, land drains running at almost full bore, surface water everything.

We all know the infra structure needs huge restoration work & some new resevoirs to take hill water & top up rivers in summer.

Do your local facebook groups have any solutions?

They are generally more interested in what shops are open Boxing Day
There’s a group locally who put “ leaky dams “ on hillside streams and plant a lot of trees , we’ve some on a really steep hillside

Wood field · Jan 4, 2024

borderterribles said:
Well, that's maybe because plenty of the "nasty farmer" posters live in these very same houses!

Most of us nasty farmers are on the hillsides, not seen much block paving either. There was a council small holding between here and Rochdale , it was notoriously wet , council sold it for a housing estate. Another for those that know the area “ kingsway” Rochdale , a huge industrial park and housing , all on flood planes
Waters got to go somewhere

Kidds · Jan 4, 2024

The cause of flooding works a bit like traffic queues on a motorway. When there is too much flowing in and not enough flowing out then you get a flood, (or a queue of cars).
The solutions are also similar.
1. Slow the flow upstream
2. Speed up the flow downstream
If you speed up the flow by dredging, channeling and straighting a river you may solve the problem, but cause more flooding further downstream.
If you slow the flow in the upper catchment streams, ditches, drains, driveways, roads, buildings, hard surfaces, etc you will not only reduce your flood but also reduce all the flooding further downstream.
Water has to come from somewhere and has to go somewhere so it is important to map out your entire catchment to know where it is coming from and where it is flowing to....
There are a range of methods to slow the flow and make more water soak into the soil where it may replenish the groundwater that we extract from bore holes to create the tap water we all use so everybody wins. Less flooding and less drought and fewer hosepipe bans.
Rain Gardens
Water butts,
Soakaways (saves you money on your Water Bills)
Permiable driveways
Natural Flood Management
Rewilding (wiggling) streams
Large Woody Debris
Creating ponds and lakes
Riverside woodland
Keyline Ploughing
etc

One of the locals posted the above on the village FB page. Obviously a copy and paste from somewhere that spouts the latest water non management mantra, wouldn't be surprised if it was from an EA page somewhere. Nothing at all in that list will help the village when we get rain on top of saturated fields.
If the river network was managed as it was 40 odd years ago there wouldn't be a problem because the land would have had chance to dry out. Yes we have had a wet time but there has been enough gaps in the rainfall to allow water to drain away if only there was somewhere for it to go. The current lack of waterway maintenance is like leaving the plug in the bath with the taps running.
We've been told to expect more weather like this with climate change, I think cleaning the waterways properly should be a priority.
Not that fussed on a personal level, my fields are extra wet but my house won't flood. There's a lot of people locally that can't say the same thing though.

Optimus · Jan 4, 2024

Wait till you get some beavers too.then the real fun starts.

Kidds · Jan 4, 2024

There's a small cul-de-sac in the village, relatively new build (20-30 years), called Mill Close.
It was built in a hollow pretty much where the old mill pond was, floods most years surprise surprise.

serf · Jan 4, 2024

Water fills all the ditches and flood plains up and top bit gets away somehow but bulk sits there in the ditches and sponges ( flood plains).
because the the main water courses that EA / NRA should would normally clear are left blocked up so the cycle of rain- flood plain - soak away - repeat- is just fill everywhere up sit there and look at it and get the Globull Warming crew using it for their agenda .

DrWazzock · Jan 4, 2024

Once undrained land is saturated you just get massive run off whatever you do to try to slow the flow in watercourses etc. The water will just find a way round or over any restrictions, beavers dams etc.
Underdrsined land at least does a bit to smooth out flows, accumulating water then letting it go steadily ready to refill at the next big rain event. It buys a bit of time, reduces surges, reduces erosion by reducing surface run off but at the end of the day it only does so much and here at this time of year if it rains heavily for two days in a row, even under drained fields are “full” and it’s running off. If watercourses are clear it’s less likely to “back up” and the system will be empty in time for the next big rain event rather than having no spare holding capacity.

Welderloon · Jan 4, 2024

Kidds said:
One of the locals posted the above on the village FB page. Obviously a copy and paste from somewhere that spouts the latest water non management mantra, wouldn't be surprised if it was from an EA page somewhere. Nothing at all in that list will help the village when we get rain on top of saturated fields.
If the river network was managed as it was 40 odd years ago there wouldn't be a problem because the land would have had chance to dry out. Yes we have had a wet time but there has been enough gaps in the rainfall to allow water to drain away if only there was somewhere for it to go. The current lack of waterway maintenance is like leaving the plug in the bath with the taps running.
We've been told to expect more weather like this with climate change, I think cleaning the waterways properly should be a priority.
Not that fussed on a personal level, my fields are extra wet but my house won't flood. There's a lot of people locally that can't say the same thing though.

Kidds,
Reply to the facebook poster & suggest they remove the peaked roof from their house & replace with a flat one if they are so concerned about 'slowing the flow'
I attended a flood group meeting before X-mas with lots of these ecologist types & a SEPA (Scottish EA) Rep in attendance who all championed this 'slow the flow' nonsense - they had no answer when I suggested our forefathers knew nothing then for building properties with sloping roofs & draining the land to move the water off faster.
When I explained North Scotland was different to lowland Scotland in that our rivers & streams are spate driven they just looked at me blankly - these people really need steered away from any decision making process that involves the whole of society. They are on par with Vegans

Kidds · Jan 4, 2024

Top and tail of it is there isn't a one size fits all solution. Around here and the wider area it makes great sense to do all you can to get the water away as quickly as possible. Get it into the rivers and away to the sea. However, I doubt very much the people in Worcester would be quite so keen for the people upstream of the Severn to take that approach right now but then again with saturated land it's coming anyway.
This modern ecological approach is rubbish as there was much more diversity in the waterways when I was a kid and they were managed properly. It's even more of a rubbish when they do feck all about the amount of sewerage entering too. Farmers are not without blame on that note either.

Cause of flooding from storm Henk

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page