Ive been keeping a secret...

TheRanger

Member
Location
SW Scotland
Can look at that from the other side of the coin if you wish, is the reason the average number of lactations in the UK is 1.9 because Holsteins give too much milk as heifers? The milks just a sideline in 1st lactation the main aim here is to set them up to do 5-8 lactations there after.
Average no. of lactations had very little correlation to profitability in the be benchmarking/discussion group I used to be involved with.

I think the average number of lactations in the UK will be quite a bit higher than 1.9 though? a quick google search throws up numbers in the region of 3-4 lactations being the average for the country across all breeds.

(British Cattle Breeders Club - 3.6)
(RSPCA - “just under 4”)
(Holstein UK - “just over 3”)
 

Jdunn55

Member
Still like to use plus on fertility bulls. The premier cows are noticeably harder to get in calf.
In an ideal world I'd definitely rather a positive fertility bull but its not a breaking point for me - especially on a genomic bull, not sure I would use a negative proven bull

He won't suit premier cows, but stuff like persistent, caleb, evolution, hylke, benny etc I wouldn't be afraid of
 

Farmer Keith

Member
Location
North Cumbria
Average no. of lactations had very little correlation to profitability in the be benchmarking/discussion group I used to be involved with.

I think the average number of lactations in the UK will be quite a bit higher than 1.9 though? a quick google search throws up numbers in the region of 3-4 lactations being the average for the country across all breeds.

(British Cattle Breeders Club - 3.6)
(RSPCA - “just under 4”)
(Holstein UK - “just over 3”)

I stand corrected, I was sure I’d heard the figure of 1.9 banded about, maybe a Holstein only figure rather than all UK dairy cows? It’s a pointless stat anyways really, there’s one hell of a variation between farms.

I think most of the farmers in our discussion group would argue there’s a significant link between herd longevity and profitability both in terms of paying off the current crops rearing costs and insuring you don’t need to rear as many heifers to maintain the herd. There’s plenty of tail hangers making a living from cows that are short lived though so you’ve to be careful who you listen to.
 

Jdunn55

Member
I stand corrected, I was sure I’d heard the figure of 1.9 banded about, maybe a Holstein only figure rather than all UK dairy cows? It’s a pointless stat anyways really, there’s one hell of a variation between farms.

I think most of the farmers in our discussion group would argue there’s a significant link between herd longevity and profitability both in terms of paying off the current crops rearing costs and insuring you don’t need to rear as many heifers to maintain the herd. There’s plenty of tail hangers making a living from cows that are short lived though so you’ve to be careful who you listen to.
Canada holsteins 1.9 lactation average I believe
 

Enry

Member
Location
Shropshire
fertility is one of the reasons xbreeding became popular.
i wonder if it's plateaued now? Some superb fertility figures in a lot of pure holstein herds now, it was generally not the case 10-15 years ago, I suspect genetics and management have playted a part whereas some thought crossbreeding was the answer - it probably was a quick fix. I have never been a fan of inbreeding and that's where a lot of "pedigree" breeders came unstuck - seen plenty of cows in dispersal saes that had regular long holidays! Using breeding software has been a big plus to avoid inbreeding - the days of a few straws from every rep have moved on thank God.

This would be a farm I'd like to visit - Holstein club went recently and several said it was very impressive

1704553310848.png
 

Enry

Member
Location
Shropshire
my principle is simple, the longer they stay on farm, and producing, the bigger the profit on them.

on the other hand, you can end up with to many old cows.
that is a sweeping statement...there is a sweet spot for culling - i.e. just before their productivity drops or their value plummets. Rather have a younger fitter healthier herd than a load of old girls there for the sake of "longevity". Block calving herds only seem to have old cows that have got pregnant and been productive and troublefree, easy to slip into habit of just keeping cows in an AYR situation
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
that is a sweeping statement...there is a sweet spot for culling - i.e. just before their productivity drops or their value plummets. Rather have a younger fitter healthier herd than a load of old girls there for the sake of "longevity". Block calving herds only seem to have old cows that have got pregnant and been productive and troublefree, easy to slip into habit of just keeping cows in an AYR situation
we block calve, and we have kept odd cows right round, if they are producing the milk, 1 old girl, 09 born, 19,000 litres in 24 months, that's ok.

but, when we turn the bull in, he tends to 'catch' some of those older cows, we didn't serve to AI, then its 'oh, we will take the calf off her, and cull', they tend to stay !

our fertility is really good this year, pd will be the answer to that, but serving well ahead of normal.

good grass/maize silage, crimped wheat, and a bit of good hay, forms the bulk of the ration, all good quality grub, and not so much of bought in conc, whose ingredients are often variable, including some very cheap fillers !

get the nutrition spot on, and everything seems to follow on. And there has been a lot of attention paid to fertility in bull breeding, or perhaps emphasis on more 'solid, robust' cows, is rising fertility figures.

we calved our cows in 12 weeks, hfrs a month before the cows.
just got a few mar/apr calvers, may sell, or run round, they are good cows, that normally calve in spring, total 8.
 
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Enry

Member
Location
Shropshire
we block calve, and we have kept odd cows right round, if they are producing the milk, 1 old girl, 09 born, 19,000 litres in 24 months, that's ok.

but, when we turn the bull in, he tends to 'catch' some of those older cows, we didn't serve to AI, then its 'oh, we will take the calf off her, and cull', they tend to stay !

our fertility is really good this year, pd will be the answer to that, but serving well ahead of normal.

good grass/maize silage, crimped wheat, and a bit of good hay, forms the bulk of the ration, all good quality grub, and not so much of bought in conc, whose ingredients are often variable, including some very cheap fillers !

get the nutrition spot on, and everything seems to follow on. And there has been a lot of attention paid to fertility in bull breeding, or perhaps emphasis on more 'solid, robust' cows, is rising fertility figures.

we calved our cows in 12 weeks, hfrs a month before the cows.
just got a few mar/apr calvers, may sell, or run round, they are good cows, that normally calve in spring, total 8.
well done, I think more AYR herds have got a better focus than in past, and block calving focuses the mind - for you guys, a cow only stays if she is pregnant or productive or both, not just because it would be nice to get a heifer off her
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
The figure banded around here is 18% replacement rate so that sits about right on that table, striving for the maximum number of 3,4 and 5th lactation cows driving production but still enough heifers coming through to keep the genetic gain going and not having to keep them too old.
That’s the key isn’t it not having too many over 7 calves 8 plus always seem to require extra care with reduced yields
 

Farmer Keith

Member
Location
North Cumbria
That’s the key isn’t it not having too many over 7 calves 8 plus always seem to require extra care with reduced yields
Oldest is a 9th here at the moment, I’ve not served her this time as shes looking like she's going a bit arthritic but Interestingly her 8th lactation was the best of her life although we were throwing the feed around last year a little more than normal.
 

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