Suckler cows on Arable ground???

Bossfarmer · Jan 21, 2017

Archie said:
There have been multiple reasons why not to run suckler cows on arable ground over the years. Wouldn't think many people still carrying this out as their farming policy are going to change that just because barley price looks good for this year. There will be bigger reasons as to why they work that system.

There does seem to be a genuine demand for it up here this year @Pint. Last years area sown was only 70% of normal area and stores are as empty as they have been for 3-4 years. There are indeed contracts offering minimum £150t and others talking of £20t over wheat futures contracts not going to pay as well as harvest price.
We shall wait and see but either way agree with @martin gribbon that I wouldn't go changing the farming system over the head of such promises.

what are the multiple reasons for not running them on arable in your opinion? given that I have to buy some straw in each year I thought about growing a couple fields more grain and less cows to become self sufficient

CharcoalWally · Jan 21, 2017

Happy said:
Plenty jumped from stock to grain on marginal arable land in the past and soon regretted it. That's without being in a high rainfall area. Promises of £150t wouldn't tempt me to make wholesale changes to current system.

In a nutshell. Barley itself needs decent weather , and malting barley even more so , which is why attempts to grow it in the past here on the West aren't usually repeated. Chances are that if your farm is fit for growing malting barley , then you're already growing it.

There would be plenty of wet parts of Perthshire wouldn't there? I remember reading a booklet issued by some agency or other 15 odd years ago which seemed to indicate that Auchterarder of all places had had one of Scotland's highest rainfalls that year.

If it's a livestock farm , there's a point on the curve before you get to arable - have more sheep.......

Bossfarmer · Jan 21, 2017

CharcoalWally said:
In a nutshell. Barley itself needs decent weather , and malting barley even more so , which is why attempts to grow it in the past here on the West aren't usually repeated. Chances are that if your farm is fit for growing malting barley , then you're already growing it.

There would be plenty of wet parts of Perthshire wouldn't there? I remember reading a booklet issued by some agency or other 15 odd years ago which seemed to indicate that Auchterarder of all places had had one of Scotland's highest rainfalls that year.

If it's a livestock farm , there's a point on the curve before you get to arable - have more sheep.......

not 100% agreeing with that, the reason a lot of its not in barley is because dad liked having cows and it seemed pointless to change it the last 2 years with the grain price, yes auchterarder is a wet hole not sure why its so wet there

Pan mixer · Jan 21, 2017

A jolly good reason to keep the grass and the cows in the rotation is to keep the grass weeds down, but I don't suppose that you suffer black-grass like us up there?

Bossfarmer · Jan 21, 2017

Pan mixer said:
A jolly good reason to keep the grass and the cows in the rotation is to keep the grass weeds down, but I don't suppose that you suffer black-grass like us up there?

Nope, never heard of it until i cameon these forums

TX66 · Jan 21, 2017

Are you making no money from your suckled ?

coomoo · Jan 21, 2017

Who does make money from sucklers? If I had fields fit for arable damn sure I'd bother with cows.

Top Tip. · Jan 21, 2017

I am not an arable farmer but I have friends who are and they tell me that the reason for the uplift in the malting
Barley price is partly down to the amount of ground being used to grow crop for the AD plants and I could certainly believe it as there is 5 new ad plants up here and they tell me that the big ones need 5000 acres of crop to feed them,so up here most of that ground would be growing malting barley.

Archie · Jan 22, 2017

Bossfarmer said:
what are the multiple reasons for not running them on arable in your opinion? given that I have to buy some straw in each year I thought about growing a couple fields more grain and less cows to become self sufficient

Mainly that on good arable ground cropping options over the years will have given better returns than running suckler cows on it.
Would have thought if someone has stuck with them to this point after years of little money in it, even less so through BSE and F&M episodes then there must be a pretty good reason for having that system such as ground not being fit for all arable or the dung from the cattle being necessary to make the system work.

Not saying you shouldn't put in a couple of fields of it if you see it working for you but can't see loads of people suddenly putting their cows down the road to sell barley at £150t.

Archie · Jan 22, 2017

CharcoalWally said:
There would be plenty of wet parts of Perthshire wouldn't there? I remember reading a booklet issued by some agency or other 15 odd years ago which seemed to indicate that Auchterarder of all places had had one of Scotland's highest rainfalls that year.

If it's a livestock farm , there's a point on the curve before you get to arable - have more sheep.......

There is a well known statistic in these parts that every mile you move west from Perth to Crieff there is an inch more annual rainfall.
Would think it's probably even more of a difference in past decade.

Colin · Jan 22, 2017

Archie said:
There is a well known statistic in these parts that every mile you move west from Perth to Crieff there is an inch more annual rainfall.
Would think it's probably even more of a difference in past decade.

And I know who gave you that stat!

On the livestock side, until the 80's this place had dairy, sheep and arable as it was part of a larger business with hill as well. To mind it wouldn't be a great grass farm as it would burn up quite badly. So best to use it for higher value roots as much as possible. Keep all straw on the place, grow cover crops to improve it a bit.
TBH malting barley is my least profitable crop in the long run. Even an average crop.of wheat grown reasonably cheaply gives better margins and more straw for carrots. Paradoxically on this light land oats are about the best combinable crop but not great for straw amounts plus I have bad wild oats.

Bossfarmer · Jan 22, 2017

Archie said:
There is a well known statistic in these parts that every mile you move west from Perth to Crieff there is an inch more annual rainfall.
Would think it's probably even more of a difference in past decade.

this extra rainfall can be a blessing in dry years though esp for getting fert washed it, as long as you have a decent dryer and combine capacity it should be too much of an issue?

Bossfarmer · Jan 22, 2017

TX66 said:
Are you making no money from your suckled ?

yes theres money in it but im renting a cattle court next door and buying straw in so dropping 40 cows and would release 80 acres (silage and grazing ground) for growing grain and I wouldn't need to buy straw or rent the court

whitefox · Jan 22, 2017

Bossfarmer said:
this extra rainfall can be a blessing in dry years though esp for getting fert washed it, as long as you have a decent dryer and combine capacity it should be too much of an issue?

in my part of central Scotland any extra rainfall over and above the excesive amount that we already get would be NO blessing!

Bossfarmer · Jan 22, 2017

whitefox said:
in my part of central Scotland any extra rainfall over and above the excesive amount that we already get would be NO blessing!

im guessing you must be the crieff area? that must be the wettest part of central Scotland?

DrWazzock · Jan 22, 2017

I wouldn't change my system based on one years prices.

Do what suits the land, soil, local weather etc and the rest will come right.

Suckler cows on Arable ground???

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