George Eustace says we have to improve soil health

Feldspar · Nov 16, 2017

gone up the hill said:
If you haven't the cash/ cashflow due to low prices what is the first thing you do? cut inputs like Lime etc

Couple of Aussie's on here like @Farmer Roy (if I remember correctly) who said the main reason people took up no-till was because they couldn't afford not to. It'll work in different ways in different situations. In the same way as your lime example, people struggling for over-winter feed will keep livestock out longer and create more run-off etc.

gone up the hill · Nov 16, 2017

Feldspar said:
We've had tree planting grants already so nothing new in that respect. Will they have to up the payment rates considerably to actually persuade people to do it in a big way?

No amount of money would entice me to plant even one acre of my land into trees!

All very well the grant money but at the end of it you might have received £1500 acre for example but then the grants are gone, your land has dropped in value from £7000 acre to £3000 acre and you cant get any income from it for 15+ years after the grant payments have dried up!

( I have nothing against planting a few trees in hedgerows for example thou )

gone up the hill · Nov 16, 2017

Feldspar said:
Couple of Aussie's on here like @Farmer Roy (if I remember correctly) who said the main reason people took up no-till was because they couldn't afford not to. It'll work in different ways in different situations. In the same way as your lime example, people struggling for over-winter feed will keep livestock out longer and create more run-off etc.

We are told to cut costs, out wintering cattle on kale etc is a way to do that.

Current straw price is unsustainable to house cattle for a day longer than is needed.

( ie for example it currently would be like you spending £700 an acre on growing wheat knowing full well that the total value of that acre of wheat wont be anymore than £500 acre )

Very little if any run off from outwintering cattle.

Kiwi Pete · Nov 16, 2017

This is going to end in tears.

If they want healthier soils then the money is better spent on education, research and development, than 10% off a no-till drill for the month of Feb

The way they did it here was to send everyone so f**king broke we could no longer afford to do anything to the soil, and when we do, it has to be as little as possible to get a reliable result, and have a resilient farm business.

Good soil health is the major factor in having a robust business, no matter what you farm. The broker you get, the more you see it?

It is a grand idea, all the same, and will ensure better future outcomes than current "oversupply at any cost" directives.

But it is not for politicians to dictate the methods.
They need to equip you with the knowledge and tools, and stand back.

Shame logic gets forgotten, when political grandstanding comes to the fore...

Feldspar · Nov 16, 2017

gone up the hill said:
We are told to cut costs, out wintering cattle on kale etc is a way to do that.

Current straw price is unsustainable to house cattle for a day longer than is needed.

( ie for example it currently would be like you spending £700 an acre on growing wheat knowing full well that the total value of that acre of wheat wont be anymore than £500 acre )

Very little if any run off from outwintering cattle.

I defer on all livestock matters to anyone with more than zero clue!

gone up the hill · Nov 16, 2017

Kiwi Pete said:
This is going to end in tears.

If they want healthier soils then the money is better spent on education, research and development, than 10% off a no-till drill for the month of Feb

The way they did it here was to send everyone so fudgeing broke we could no longer afford to do anything to the soil, and when we do, it has to be as little as possible to get a reliable result, and have a resilient farm business.

Good soil health is the major factor in having a robust business, no matter what you farm. The broker you get, the more you see it?

It is a grand idea, all the same, and will ensure better future outcomes than current "oversupply at any cost" directives.

But it is not for politicians to dictate the methods.
They need to equip you with the knowledge and tools, and stand back.

Shame logic gets forgotten, when political grandstanding comes to the fore...

A lot of levy payers money ( ie AHDB money we pay which we have no choice in doing so or not ) goes on research / R+D etc, always calls for more of our money being spent in this area yet ever £ currently spent in this area isn't returning even 10 pence in the £ to farmers, all this money is doing is keeping people in highly paid research jobs who are failing to deliver any results!

cattleman123 · Nov 16, 2017

gone up the hill said:
A lot of levy payers money ( ie AHDB money we pay which we have no choice in doing so or not ) goes on research / R+D etc, always calls for more of our money being spent in this area yet ever £ currently spent in this area isn't returning even 10 pence in the £ to farmers, all this money is doing is keeping people in highly paid research jobs who are failing to deliver any results!

Yes and when I start selling Hogs I am thinking of withholding my payments ...their must be a way..i am looking into it...they are a waste of space and farmers keep paying

Feldspar · Nov 16, 2017

Kiwi Pete said:
This is going to end in tears.

If they want healthier soils then the money is better spent on education, research and development, than 10% off a no-till drill for the month of Feb

The way they did it here was to send everyone so fudgeing broke we could no longer afford to do anything to the soil, and when we do, it has to be as little as possible to get a reliable result, and have a resilient farm business.

Good soil health is the major factor in having a robust business, no matter what you farm. The broker you get, the more you see it?

It is a grand idea, all the same, and will ensure better future outcomes than current "oversupply at any cost" directives.

But it is not for politicians to dictate the methods.
They need to equip you with the knowledge and tools, and stand back.

Shame logic gets forgotten, when political grandstanding comes to the fore...

There has been quite a bit of work done on the design of environmental schemes. One difference that I read about in relation the UK ELS scheme, as it was at the time, was the merits of action- versus results-based schemes. Do you pay farmers to do things that you think will achieve your ultimate end goal, or do you just pay farmers to achieve the end goal. On the issue of soil health, it will be really interesting to think about how best to achieve the stated aim.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2664.2011.02022.x/full

Feldspar · Nov 16, 2017

gone up the hill said:
No amount of money would entice me to plant even one acre of my land into trees!

All very well the grant money but at the end of it you might have received £1500 acre for example but then the grants are gone, your land has dropped in value from £7000 acre to £3000 acre and you cant get any income from it for 15+ years after the grant payments have dried up!

( I have nothing against planting a few trees in hedgerows for example thou )

And that's why no-one does it / did it. Doubt they're about to pay you £4000/ac to do it.

farmerm · Nov 16, 2017

Feldspar said:
You could argue it the other way around (I have no idea which is the right way round): If profitability is really squeezed, people will have to protect their soil to avoid spiralling into terminal decline. If profitability is really good, people become lazy and won't bother.

Which is why it takes carrot and stick.. carrot to be able to afford to improve things, stick to encourage you to improve things when you are full of carrot.

gone up the hill · Nov 16, 2017

cattleman123 said:
Yes and when I start selling Hogs I am thinking of withholding my payments ...their must be a way..i am looking into it...they are a waste of space and farmers keep paying

The AHDB levy is classed as a Tax so unless you sell them in the store ring there is no way of withholding the levy money!

I got the AHDB book the other day, didn't know whether to laugh or cry.... had two pics of cattle, one clearly a store animal and another clearly a fhinshed animal, then two/ three pages explaining/ telling levy payers why one animal was unfhinshed and why one was fhinshed... they are treating us like school kids!!

Utter waste of money and should be an inquiry into who at the AHDB rubber stamps the spending on levy payers money on rubbish like this!

@Henarar

farmerm · Nov 16, 2017

gone up the hill said:
No amount of money would entice me to plant even one acre of my land into trees!

All very well the grant money but at the end of it you might have received £1500 acre for example but then the grants are gone, your land has dropped in value from £7000 acre to £3000 acre and you cant get any income from it for 15+ years after the grant payments have dried up!

( I have nothing against planting a few trees in hedgerows for example thou )

Anyone know do the woodland grants work if you already have wood/scrubland where clearing and replanting wouldn't devalue the land?

neilo · Nov 16, 2017

gone up the hill said:
A lot of levy payers money ( ie AHDB money we pay which we have no choice in doing so or not ) goes on research / R+D etc, always calls for more of our money being spent in this area yet ever £ currently spent in this area isn't returning even 10 pence in the £ to farmers, all this money is doing is keeping people in highly paid research jobs who are failing to deliver any results!

Don’t forget those buggers at the NFU.

gone up the hill · Nov 16, 2017

Feldspar said:
And that's why no-one does it / did it. Doubt they're about to pay you £4000/ac to do it.

Plenty of good land around here has/ is going into trees, some by elderly farmers but a lot by people that are doing it due to the tax breaks!

( one chap paid crazy money for some land, put it all into a trust and planted trees for tax reasons, died a few weeks after planting was fhinshed ! )

Ysgythan · Nov 16, 2017

curlietailz said:
Looks like this is the way the Govt is going to go
"A new agri-environment scheme with a strong focus on soil health will lie at the heart of new agricultural policy post-Brexit, farming minister George Eustice has announced."

Zero credibility following the Brexit campaign.

farmerm · Nov 16, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Plenty of good land around here has/ is going into trees, some by elderly farmers but a lot by people that are doing it due to the tax breaks!

( one chap paid crazy money for some land, put it all into a trust and planted trees for tax reasons, died a few weeks after planting was fhinshed ! )

Was the tax reason "to devalue it"?

gone up the hill · Nov 16, 2017

neilo said:
Don’t forget those buggers at the NFU.

Most of the NFU office holders now end up at the AHDB.......

AHDB are actually worse than the NFU, you have a choice to pay to be a NFU member, AHDB levy if you sell fhinshed stock your are forced to pay it!

gone up the hill · Nov 16, 2017

farmerm said:
Was the tax reason "to devalue it"?

Don't know tbh.

Feldspar · Nov 16, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Plenty of good land around here has/ is going into trees, some by elderly farmers but a lot by people that are doing it due to the tax breaks!

( one chap paid crazy money for some land, put it all into a trust and planted trees for tax reasons, died a few weeks after planting was fhinshed ! )

Why does planting trees help with tax?

cattleman123 · Nov 16, 2017

gone up the hill said:
The AHDB levy is classed as a Tax so unless you sell them in the store ring there is no way of withholding the levy money!

I got the AHDB book the other day, didn't know whether to laugh or cry.... had two pics of cattle, one clearly a store animal and another clearly a fhinshed animal, then two/ three pages explaining/ telling levy payers why one animal was unfhinshed and why one was fhinshed... they are treating us like school kids!!

Utter waste of money and should be an inquiry into who at the AHDB rubber stamps the spending on levy payers money on rubbish like this!

They are a complete bunch of twits and we farmers support them come on lets sort this once and for all ...

George Eustace says we have to improve soil health

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