Company advising on "greening" (insulation etc.) near Chepstow?

sandspider · Jan 22, 2019

Hi all

As above really. I'm using a lot of heating oil (3000 litres ish per year, plus at least one woodburner) to warm a fairly big, old, stone mill building. Boiler is pretty new, but house isn't very warm. Can anyone recommend a company who will come out, have a look at it and say "You need more loft insulation to save £x, line the inner walls to save £y and install a GSHP at a cost of £h to save £z. You can get a grant for a and b and c will cost you £t". Or something similar! I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for, and google isn't much help - probably as I'm not sure what I'm looking for.

Any thoughts? Thank you.

akaPABLO01 · Jan 22, 2019

sandspider said:
Hi all

As above really. I'm using a lot of heating oil (3000 litres ish per year, plus at least one woodburner) to warm a fairly big, old, stone mill building. Boiler is pretty new, but house isn't very warm. Can anyone recommend a company who will come out, have a look at it and say "You need more loft insulation to save £x, line the inner walls to save £y and install a GSHP at a cost of £h to save £z. You can get a grant for a and b and c will cost you £t". Or something similar! I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for, and google isn't much help - probably as I'm not sure what I'm looking for.

Any thoughts? Thank you.

How are your radiators performing, are they all hot?

Pop into the loft with a ruler. Minimum loft insulation should be 270mm. If it’s less bump it up to 300mm (DIY)

Seal around the loft hatch with an rubber draught excluder, put a bail of insulation stapled to the loft hatch. (DIY)

If you have a chimney and don’t use the fire block up the hole with a chimney sheep. (DIY)

How old are your windows, single or double glaze. What’s the depth between each pane, 5mm,20mm?

How many stories? Would you consider adding rock wool in the flooring of each level?

Is the ground floor suspended?

Can you seal the front and back door like I told you to seal the loft?
Google this> “seal to exclude draught from front door“

What condition is exterior mortar lines?

Lastly, is the property shaded during winter?

sandspider · Jan 22, 2019

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll answer each point below.

akaPABLO01 said:
How are your radiators performing, are they all hot?
Yes, all serviced etc. Though we do get a bit of air in the system and system pressure seems to keep dropping.

Pop into the loft with a ruler. Minimum loft insulation should be 270mm. If it’s less bump it up to 300mm (DIY)
Probably less, but a right bugger of a job to do as it's an ancient house with new bits tacked on here and there and a right bugger's muddle in the attic!

Seal around the loft hatch with an rubber draught excluder, put a bail of insulation stapled to the loft hatch. (DIY)
Already done.

If you have a chimney and don’t use the fire block up the hole with a chimney sheep. (DIY)
Log burners or chimney sealed as you say.

How old are your windows, single or double glaze. What’s the depth between each pane, 5mm,20mm?
100 years plus, single glazed! But with thick curtains behind. Eventually we'll probably replace the windows with double glazed, ideally wood but may have to be plastic for longevity...

How many stories? Would you consider adding rock wool in the flooring of each level?
3. I'd consider it, but I think it would be a bugger of a job...

Is the ground floor suspended?
No, direct laid with tile on concrete (I think). Pretty cold underfoot anyway, though there's UFH in the newer part of the house.

Can you seal the front and back door like I told you to seal the loft?
Google this> “seal to exclude draught from front door“
Already sealed. Though that reminds me, I should get rid of the letterbox, seal up the front door and put a letter box outside somewhere.

What condition is exterior mortar lines?
Pretty good as far as I can see. (Lime mortar) But I've not got up close and personal to all of it as it's a tall house and I'm not a big fan of long ladders!

Lastly, is the property shaded during winter?
Yes, very much so! In a Welsh valley. Not much sun touches it between October and March really.

farmerm · Jan 22, 2019

Best advice - move out

doesn't have to be too far, perhaps into a small well insulated pod in the garden, kind of like a summer house but designed for winter living..

I would need 3 though.. one for me, one for the mrs, one for the kids...

or move out (for a while), strip the property to the bones, install Celotex insulation in the ground floor and all external walls, replace all doors and window, re-wire, re-plumb re-plaster re-paint... Taking mega money, it might be cheaper to knock down and start again.... but I know a couple of houses and barn conversions that had this treatment and they are super warm with low fuel costs.

Don't consider GSHP unless combined with option 2... Your thermal losses, like mine, are greater than GSHP can replace in heat.

or move out avoid winter and live cheaply in Asia for 5 months each year, my uncle and my sisters in-laws both do this!

or get thermal onesies for all the family

In seriousness if you want an assessment that will give you pointers find yourself a good EPC (energy performance certificate) assessor. Loads about (maybe not all good

) as every house for sale or rent needs to have a recent EPC certificate...

akaPABLO01 · Jan 22, 2019

sandspider said:
Thanks for the detailed response. I'll answer each point below.

Had an old hop or barley mill I looked at over at Connah’s Quay with similar issues. We didn’t look at internal wall insulation as the internal walls weren’t level but were 600mm.

Windows and loft was their issue which seems to be yours and if your rads are hot I may be inclined to think they aren’t big enough.

Find your worst performing radiator. Shut all rads down except that until it gets too hot to touch. Leave it 10 minutes then slowly open radiators near it.

You have a water weep on your system. Check all radiator valves for water. 2 options, nip up the connection, if that doesn’t work you may need to drop your system and PTFE the olive.

If all rads are dry, it may be a hidden compression coupling or perished.

Put some thermal curtain up in winter until you upgrade or add window film to the windows.

Rod Dumbreck · Jan 22, 2019

3000 litres sounds a lot, but is relatively cheap compared to the costs of getting the building updated to the latest spec.

We have stone walls in our barn conversion (stone inside and out) and they don't loose that much heat now they are dry, however when we had just finished our building works and moved in, the place was as cold as ice, I think that damp walls conduct heat readily.

Loft insulation is an easy win, but before you go crazy dabbing celotex all over your lovely stone walls, just do a few sums to see whether there is a payback for your investment.

There are firms which do EPC evaluations, usually for when you are selling or renting out your property, in my experience, only some of them know what hey are talking about.

(energy performance certificate)

akaPABLO01 · Jan 22, 2019

Rod Dumbreck said:
3000 litres sounds a lot, but is relatively cheap compared to the costs of getting the building updated to the latest spec.

We have stone walls in our barn conversion (stone inside and out) and they don't loose that much heat now they are dry, however when we had just finished our building works and moved in, the place was as cold as ice, I think that damp walls conduct heat readily.

Loft insulation is an easy win, but before you go crazy dabbing celotex all over your lovely stone walls, just do a few sums to see whether there is a payback for your investment.

There are firms which do EPC evaluations, usually for when you are selling or renting out your property, in my experience, only some of them know what hey are talking about.

(energy performance certificate)

The epc will recommend;
Loft insulation
Internal wall insulation
Windows upgrade, I’m thinking it’s listed?
Solar
Wind turbine
Heating controls

Plus he just checks https://www.epcregister.com/reportSearchAddressByPostcode.html
For his epc

If it’s listed you can apply for one heat pump. You would need a cascade (2) ASHP possibly 23/28kW which is a lot of amp. You could go GSHP if you have the land looking at 21kW but you’ll also need full rad upgrade, maybe new installs too?

Rod Dumbreck · Jan 22, 2019

akaPABLO01 said:
The epc will recommend;
Loft insulation
Internal wall insulation
Windows upgrade, I’m thinking it’s listed?
Solar
Wind turbine
Heating controls

Plus he just checks https://www.epcregister.com/reportSearchAddressByPostcode.html
For his epc

If it’s listed you can apply for one heat pump. You would need a cascade (2) ASHP possibly 23/28kW which is a lot of amp. You could go GSHP if you have the land looking at 21kW but you’ll also need full rad upgrade, maybe new installs too?

How much for that lot (roughly)?

akaPABLO01 · Jan 23, 2019

Rod Dumbreck said:
How much for that lot (roughly)?

Wet finger in the air, £30k plus depending on the condition of your pipe and radiator upgrade. Looking at about £30k RHI

sandspider · Jan 23, 2019

Thanks for the thoughts, all.

We're not listed, but we don't want to lose the character. Knocking the house down seems a bit drastic, but I'll bear it in mind!

Sounds like there's not a huge amount we can do without spending serious money for comparatively minor returns.

I did look up the EPC for the house, but it's almost ten years old, and not that relevant any more. It suggested energy saving bulbs and thermostatic radiator valves, both of which we have.

I can't see any leaks from any radiators, but will check more closely in case there's a bit of steam getting out somewhere and evaporating rather than gathering on the floor. Plumber suggested putting stop leak in the system, but that seems like a bit of a bodge to me.

akaPABLO01 · Jan 23, 2019

sandspider said:
Thanks for the thoughts, all.

We're not listed, but we don't want to lose the character. Knocking the house down seems a bit drastic, but I'll bear it in mind!

Sounds like there's not a huge amount we can do without spending serious money for comparatively minor returns.

I did look up the EPC for the house, but it's almost ten years old, and not that relevant any more. It suggested energy saving bulbs and thermostatic radiator valves, both of which we have.

I can't see any leaks from any radiators, but will check more closely in case there's a bit of steam getting out somewhere and evaporating rather than gathering on the floor. Plumber suggested putting stop leak in the system, but that seems like a bit of a bodge to me.

Tie dry tissue around all connection radiator valves for a week. Put some around the boiler flow and return. If they are dry after you’ll know it’s hidden. It may well be escaping in floorboards or hidden areas. You really need to sort it because something somewhere is absorbing it and rotting.

It won’t be steam as it will not reach 100°

Time to start lifting floorboards and tracing.

sandspider · Jan 23, 2019

Thank you.

We've had a slight damp patch on one wall of the kitchen ever since we bought the house, but the system pressure never used to decrease - in fact it rose, as a coil in the HW cylinder was leaking water into the system. New cylinder stopped that.

I think there's a radiator pipe running vertically behind the damp wall, but am not sure. Time to start hacking plaster off I suppose!

You seem knowledgeable - is this your profession? Don't suppose you're near Chepstow?!

akaPABLO01 · Jan 23, 2019

sandspider said:
Thank you.

We've had a slight damp patch on one wall of the kitchen ever since we bought the house, but the system pressure never used to decrease - in fact it rose, as a coil in the HW cylinder was leaking water into the system. New cylinder stopped that.

I think there's a radiator pipe running vertically behind the damp wall, but am not sure. Time to start hacking plaster off I suppose!

You seem knowledgeable - is this your profession? Don't suppose you're near Chepstow?!

Yes I work for a renewables company.

You’re about 3 hours away, not that we don’t travel it’s just not going to be cost effective using us for this work as it’s investigating. It may be found straight away then again not. But a good plumber should be able to work on it closer to you at a reasonable cost.

Company advising on "greening" (insulation etc.) near Chepstow?

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