muleman
Member
You can tell a bull that is just fat and has no natural shape or style....i always try to envisage what they will look like after they have bulled 30 cows before making a decision on a bull.
If you tell lies you'll get caught out eventually
- Thread starter M-J-G
- Start date
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
The usefulness of EBVs certainly relies on the accuracy of the data upon which they are based and ideally large groups to compare bloodlines. Beef cattle EBVs in this country are not as useful as they could be, as a consequence.
- Location
- Ardrossan Ayrshire
In some cases the bloodline is a fairytale as well. So what you are saying is buy a shapely bull from a bull beef unit and all will be fantastic?
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
Just thinking about this, could there be an opportunity here? Perhaps if the bull in questions true BB parentage was established, it could be the start of a cross-breed EBV evaluation of beef cattle? Every cloud and all that. Just reading Sarah Pick's very good Nuffield report last night and she was suggesting exactly that.
muleman
Member
Been many a worse used, its what were saying... use your eyes, one of our best bulls is a crossbred.
Anybody with any experience buys a bull on reputation, but every bull is then progeny tested purely on how his first calves perform. That's why we try to pay no more than twice the killing price for a new bull.
And all breed societies should copy the Scottish Blackface Sheep Breeders. The pedigree of any animal is purely by verbal agreement - sometimes consolidated or enhanced by whisky at the tup nights.
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Graham and Douglas Stewart near Kelso (Fans Farm) will have a number of top-class Angus bulls in their fattening shed. Who was at their beef open day about two (or three?) years ago?
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I’m more confused than ever. You guys take the ‘bloodlines’ into account, but the ‘pedigree of an animal’ is made up?
- Location
- North of Perth
Nice calves, what's the breeding of the bull?
Its a wonder more folk don't use cross bulls.when it comes to sheep every cross under the sun seems to be used!
- Location
- somerset
honesty is the best policy, if people trust you, they will buy from you.
Maybe I have a stronger faith in human nature than you have ,but I do believe in the Charolais breed which I mainly use that the bloodlines are pretty accurate. It does amuse me though when they go on about easy calving strain when any one with half an eye can see why it is easy calving.
FFS
I remember years ago in Stirling at the blackface tup sale going into a certain breeders pen and asking the breeder how is he bred ,the answer I got was how do you want him bred. I respected him for his honesty.
not here... I try to envisage how he'll look out on the newtake (intake) with 50 cows and nothing but molinia for a feed.
Unless both parents are dna checked, who really knows?I’m more confused than ever. You guys take the ‘bloodlines’ into account, but the ‘pedigree of an animal’ is made up?
I use every tool at my disposal - although ebvs isn't one of them.
In the end, if I trust the breeder, I'll ask what he has to say. If I don't, I'll generally walk on by, or at the very least...assume I'm taking pot luck.
I heard that tups step-brother was by a £30k Glen Sporran, and his dam once saw a £50k Ben Craggy Mains tup over the fence!
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I’m confused too - if we had a poll of livestock farmers on this forum, does a pedigree matter or not? And if it does, since many “purebreds”, and their EBVs, are probably not what they are supposed to be, why does it matter? There would be a lot less money spent if everyone just used animals from the fattening pen. No need for breed societies? Or fraud. Perhaps it would help everyone if we could define the advantages and disadvantages.
M-J-G
Member
Most commercial people don't seem to care, and that's really all that matters.
Didn't Jaegerbomb calf make about 6k at a dispersal last week?
The breed societies could all collapse and it would make little difference to the average farmer as pedigree breeders are pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things.
I say that as a pedigree breeder.
In the meantime I'm content to read the stories and comments on social media.
Go on...post the poll!
I'm happy to use the pedigree as a background guide.
One of the breeds I erse about with has few enough members/herds that I can unravel a lot of the years offerings at the show and sale before I ever rock up.
And when a newbie showed me a bulls pedigree lately, I was able to point out several absolute shockers in its background.
(for there are those yet who imagine winning a championship at a poorly attended show, under that well known judge 'Blind Pugh'...makes a bull worthy of great things)
M-J-G
Member
UK beef cattle figures are pretty much useless for various reasons.